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1. There is a free addon out there already with a plugin that grabs the lowest price and takes off a certain amount and copies that to the clipboard so you can just paste in the number when you update your prices. They claim this isn’t botting and that the addon/plugin isn’t illegal but I’ve seen a MASSIVE change to the market
If you mean the XL plugin, all it does is lower by -1 unless it can be edited. Shouldn’t impact so much unless it trigger people so hard that they just dump the prices?
It can be modified to reduce the price by any amount you desire, not just by 1. People will often use a random number so that people can’t just click on the + or – by the side but must check the price again then adjust it. It’s a big problem on items that sell fast as its clear that some are using something else in addition to this to automate the process. I am unable to believe that a person can update the prices 10+ times an hour, for more than 16 hours a day over a period longer than a week. Even putting aside then automation aspect, it’s just an ever increasing MB arms race. Those who don’t have that addon will suffer on fast selling items because they have to get the number, remember it, type it in correctly – the amount the wish to undercut by, whereas addon users just go to the history, paste and done. The point I’m making is that its such a small small change but even that amount of automation has made a huge difference to the MB and who gets the majority of sales.
I’m an on/off user of Miqo who plays a lot just for the market aspect of the game and I wanted to add my 2c.
1. There is a free addon out there already with a plugin that grabs the lowest price and takes off a certain amount and copies that to the clipboard so you can just paste in the number when you update your prices. They claim this isn’t botting and that the addon/plugin isn’t illegal but I’ve seen a MASSIVE change to the market.
So usually you’d update your prices once or twice a day and leave it at that, you’d still sell stuff. There are people who have somehow integrated this with (I believe) some kind of discord alert so that whenever they get undercut they go in and update their prices. I’ve tried at all times of the day and tested just doing constant updates to pricing and no matter the time of day or night they would update their prices within 5 minutes. Given the particular market I was still able to get some sales off, but not without basically just sitting at the summoning bell and updating at least 4-6 times a day. Basically I would get lucky in that they wouldn’t pay for max retainers/be in the entire swathe of these items so that every half a day they would pull down their items to reset the prices and I could get some sales off. That’s with just a system that (I believe) is not fully automated.
2. I believe most Miqo players, play to remove the tedium and because they enjoy actually playing the game. If you have aspirations for that, you’re never going to beat the actual botters who run 5-6 accounts and just camp the summoning bell. If you’re getting undercut that much, you’re better finding a market that might be slightly slower but is still popular. Furthermore once these tools get developed, as soon as you don’t use them you’re at a disadvantage. The market I mentioned before – previously there would be downtime and people would manually have to type in the numbers or undercut by 1gil and eventually after 5 times in one hour they’d chill out because they’re sick of it as much as you are. Making it automated – then they never get tired, never get bored, they just run market bot accounts to make gil around the clock and you can’t get a foot in the door.
3. Given Miqo is more directed towards people who play the game and not gil sellers, personally I’d prefer not to give gil sellers any more advantage than they already have. I assume most people don’t want to be having to run this 12 hours a day and not actually play the game? When these kind of systems get developed then that’s what happens, the person who has less time or who only plays casually and who doesn’t have dedicated accounts is the one who loses out.
4. Attention from SE into Miqo – there’s only so much people will tolerate in regards to the market. Once people get sick of people crashing the market or making the market impossible, that’s when reporting happens and SE starts investigating because people are getting mad and leaving. I’d rather not jeopardize Miqo just for not having to update prices by hand every hour (less if you find a better market). I understand that its virtually undetectable at the moment but that kind of thing encourages SE to develop tools to detect that kind of thing. Especially as it only takes a few. You only need 2,3,4 people selling current gear running a bot, even if its once an hour for other players to start going – wtf something is fishy here.
5. Development time. From the sounds of things, this would take ages to impliment – like right now we can’t even tell Miqo to go to the collectable guy, turn them all in and then buy X amount of item from the scrip vendor (other than key presses which is slow and prone to errors)- this is insanely more complicated than that. It would take a lot of time away from other things that would be used more often by the people who play the game rather than just giving gil sellers another tool in their arsenal.
6. Customer support. If Miqo breaks or messes up for whatever reason at the moment the worst is you’ll be running into something or your equipment breaks or whatever and the kill switch triggers. What happens when there’s a bug or error and Miqo accidentally sells Johnny’s Nightmare mount for 2 gil? Like people would go through the freaking roof if something happened to their gil because of a bug or accident and this system would directly interact with that rather than just allowing people to multitask the tedious parts of the game. The Miqo team could put as many “use at your own risk” disclaimers on that feature and people would still complain – you only have to see the posts and why isn’t my bot working? That come out around patch day to see that people would be demanding that the team compensate them somehow.
All of that said, I would absolutely love if something was done to fix the market system. I have max retainers, maxed out selling things and I have to update prices by hand. Part of why I use Miqo is because I have limited mobility in my hands and it allows me to rest/keep playing on days when its quite painful for me to be pressing buttons. So I would especially love a feature that made it so I didn’t have to update prices by hand – however all I see is that it’ll be a tool of people with dedicated accounts and the people who wanted it for the convenience will still end up shafted.
As for a kill switch server side on how often people can update – what happens when there’s 3 or 4 people in the same market all using Miqo? You’re outdated within an hour and it looks suss. Not to mention incidents of reporting people goes up because people are losing out (as compared to say gathering where while people are cranky about bots and prices of materials going down, they’re not actively losing an item to them).
Just my thoughts.
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This reply was modified 3 years, 8 months ago by
Talith.
Thank you for the update.
I’ve been running miqo on some expert crafts and a couple of times she’s gotten stuck on reflect (she tries to use it not on the first step and gets stuck spamming it). Hasn’t been a huge issue as I can just remove it from my bars for those crafts but I did want to notify you guys as I’m running 1.3.42 and I know it was an issue that was fixed in a previous patch but it appears broken again.
Follow up to my previous comment – despite the changes to gathering not being ready for Ishgard resto I would still like to leave my vote for gathering improvements.
I was leaning toward support for an 80 trust dungeon – however you can do trust dungeons with combat assist on? meanwhile we still don’t have basic functionality for Identical Cast? To me its a comparison between basic functionality and something that is nice to have (although understandably if you have different view of Miqo and are only focused on tomes then you’re going to want trusts asap). Moreover the gathering and crafting improvements will still be relevant by the time the development completes (SE extended the last restoration, people are going to be going for points etc). Pricing wise the cost of crafting mats for tomes is going through the floor even now (good time to stock up ;)).
Like I get it, it sucks to not just throw Miqo on and walk off and make lunch while she does a dungeon for you but you’re not supposed to be leaving her unsupervised for long periods of time anyway? (which I kind of get the impression that’s what people want – to be able to put Miqo on, have her farm tomes until you’re capped?). Another factor to consider is that substantial work will need to be done to make these trust dungeon runs somewhat random in apperance. If a bunch of people start running Miqo and capping tomes and SE notices a huge uptick in trust dungeons and investigates then there needs to be an element of randomness or they’ll just ban everyone who runs the exact same route through the dungeon. This isn’t an issue with lower level dungeons as there isn’t as much at stake (I don’t know about other people but I get the impression that SE acts fast on any noticeable endgame combat botting vs. gathering/crafting).
I don’t know how it works for others but fishing there’s no way I can weave in an identical cast with Miqo – I can’t run her, pull in a fish, pause her, then cast identical cast. It doesn’t work she’s too quick on the next cast. Gatherer’s and crafters have been wanting these updates for how long? Meanwhile I’ve been running a trust dungeon with Miqo on as I type this and only occasionally do I need to tab over and make sure I’m not standing in aoe/make my character run forward/select targets.
I also think to the purpose of having Miqo – is there to play the game for me completely or is she there as an aid? Personally I think of her as an aid – she’s there to help me if I have too much pain in my hands for repetitive movement but I don’t want her doing absolutely everything. Some people will want that option of course and will have their own opinions about what development direction Miqo should go in.
I think if you wanted to determine development direction in terms on popularity then looking at how many people are using it for crafting/gathering versus combat assist might be a good way of determining what will get used the most? I’m not sure if the devs get feedback on what people are doing with Miqo?
Anyway that’s all just my opinion, and either way I’m still going to be using Miqo because it’s been a huge change to my ability to play. I’m not here to start an argument or anything but I hope these considerations are given some thought?
Sorry for the long post!
I’d love to see gathering QOL stuff like Identical Cast supported first because of the upcoming Ishgard Restoration patch. People are going to be gathering and crafting a lot for that so it seems like a good idea to give that priority while it’s still new and prices are high (also in terms of time spent for players, it’s going to be a large time sink and miqo will make it bearable).
I know people really want tomestones at the moment because the prices are high for the new crafting mats on the Marketboard. However by the time the development process rolls (6 weeks? 8 weeks?) around they’re going to be super cheap. They’re also easily obtainable from maps/duty roulette/hunts if its a gear thing (at least the Phantasmagoria are).
Just my 2c.
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This reply was modified 3 years, 8 months ago by
