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In be4 ShB… I know Miqo “sees” even inactive nodes, unspoiled including. But HOW does it “see” them? Is that because this knowledge is “built-in” by Miqo team, or it steals it from game resources automatically?
I mean, once ShB is out, Wiki and GamerEscape node lists will be outdated, so we will have to discover nodes ourselves, to gain maximum profits from insane starting prices. But, it’s not enough to just find them – we have to make Miqo “see” them too…
Switch Miqo to macro crafting. And use your presets. Whats the problem?
Hmmmmmmm… gladly! but how? FWIK, macro can be added in the beginning only, while my whole sequence consists of presets. Of course, I can type the whole my sequence into Miqo, but then again how is it going to be different from script (other than occupying Miqo licence)?
Miqo themself said, which are the optimal croff skills:
I’m going to discuss this matter too, just a bit later (have to set up perfect grinder first, so I have more free time on my hands). To be short: if Miqo themselves say something, it does not mean it’s 100% correct. Well it MIGHT be correct, while I may be mistaken… everything is possible, that’s why it needs discussion.
Miqobot with the skills mentioned will be able to do the 100% correct sequence, since it works like a human on steroids (who doesn’t care about solving time, but only about solving reliability).
Plz… I know you are fond of Miqo (and I am too, just I praise its gathering rather than crafting), but still… gimme a break, skip such a big words. Miqo fails to find 100% correct sequence right now, even for a lvl20 crafter, let alone once you come as far as lvl70*** crafting. You don’t notice it because of some combination of three simple reasons: you fail to grasp the fact that time costs money (which, for example, can be put into gathering and thus bring gil), 2) maybe you’ve got crapload of gil invested into melding, and 3) current recipes are just too easy. Imagine crafts which require 20% more quality than Rakshasa, and you get my point…
Yes and nobody else cares.
I hope Yoshida will make you care once ShB is released, with new crafts which are impossible to HQ unless you’ve got 100% correct sequences (plus some luck with conditions)…
2 mins for rakshasa only and 20 seconds for each material. And my scenario generator groups materials together so it solves only once per stack of crafts. Are you sure youre not baiting me on purpose?
Duh! First you said “You removed Makers Mark … Its a user error.”, then you say “20 secs for materials”? Well, “20 secs for materials” obviously mean you are not using Makers Mark while crafting materials (because it’s followed by 2 mins of Flawless Synthesis spam). So why do you want ME to use Makers Mark?? “Are you sure youre not baiting me on purpose?” (C)
This is exactly what devs did. They took an algorithm they created two years ago and added one formula for 380 recipes. Minimal time, lots of effect.
Yea, I just wonder how much time did it took to implement that algorithm back then. Some months or so, much like with combat assist now? And it could have been done way faster with presets…
Which means developing a new algorithm that will check combinations to start with. At the moment crafting solver uses hyperdimensional solution maps.
Is it that hard to add new presets to solver in the beginning of new content? Took me just some 2-3 hours once I made it into HW from AAR… and there was even nothing new at the start of SB.
If you use correct skills its 60% more effective.
More like 25% more effective, but I get your point. Though, it’s still 20% less effective than maximum possible – that’s the problem. Or rather, it MIGHT be a problem in ShB. We will see.
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This reply was modified 5 years, 5 months ago by
Gray.
62 key or 42 key rotation doesnt make a lot of difference. Youre crafting with the bot anyway. If you want micromanagement then yes macros are the way to go. But this means youre still enjoying the crafting system while to me and many players it has become a grind months ago. So i prefer to click start and come back in a few hours to a full Rakshasa HQ set in my inventory. I dont babysit it and i dont care if it takes a few minutes longer than necessary.
Then there is the difference between you and me: I care about every minute.
Though, this was not the main reason why I questioned Crafter Solver’s performance. Yoshida just said about “extremely difficult recipes” and so on (see startpost). This made me wonder: if Miqo is 20% less effective at crafting simple 70*** mats than script, then it may just fail you once ShB is released. This is why I didn’t quite understand Arc’s joy…
Miqo team already explained several times that number of steps is not part of the algorithm because otherwise it would blast solving time x100. Quality bar is also removed from the equation and assumed infinite otherwise it would have to solve x10000. What youre left with is indeed a heavy cannon. Its just simple math. Optimizing for a moderate solution would probably require another year of development.
No, it won’t. Everyone who has ever been working on optimisation of something as complicated knows: you just simply can’t check all possible combinations, so you have to concentrate on the most promising ones, and chop away the rest. This is why I say: use pre-sets. For example, I’ve got 4 simple endgame pre-sets which I combine in all possible ways, receiving next to best results. These are:
1) Ingenuity, Steady Hand II, Prudent Touch x4, Piece by Piece
2) Steady Hand II, Ingenuity, Prudent Touch x4, Careful Synthesis II (/III)
3) Steady Hand II, Ingenuity, Innovation, Prudent Touch, Great Strides, Byregot’s Blessing, Careful Synthesis II (/III)
4) Maker’s Mark, Steady Hand, Piece by Piece x2, lots of Flawless Synthesis combined with Comfort ZoneThis way every skill receives most useful buffs, and no buffs are wasted. The latter one, as I’ve said already, is the last resort (Onishi & Rakshasa only), while materials have to use Muscle Memory, to save time. What Miqo has to do is a simple math which shouldn’t take lots of time: insert 2 Manipulation II and 1-2 Comfort Zone somewhere. Yes, it might be still not optimal. For example, maybe Innovation could be placed somewhere else. But I’d say: NFC. It works, it’s fast, and nothing else matters (C).
And just recently you asked Miqo devs to focus on minor QoL improvements before starting another big system. So what will it be?
This. What I always said is: don’t go for complicated math in attempt to find absolutely best result for absolutely any purpose. Instead, use simple solutions, and then work on things which take minimal time, and bring lots of effect. Geez, I’d praise a simple .wav (replaceable) played when Miqo completed crafts or finished grinding!!!
No i simply follow the guide from Stormblood Stage 2 thread. I dont use innovation and keep my solving time as low as possible – 2 minutes for rakshasa tier and 20 seconds for everything else. Innovation is only +4.4% quality and costs 15 minutes. Makers Mark and Patient Touch are +26.6% and +41.5% and come at zero time cost.
Correction: they come at 2 mins cost per craft of each material used in every Rakshasa. And average Rakshasa requires what… 6-8 materials each? Then you waste 7*13*2 = 3 hours every time per each full set crafted…
Yep like i said youre missing skills. You removed Makers Mark (+26.6%) and Patient Touch (+41.5%) and wondering why it fails. Its a user error.
Not quite – it’s user’s choice. Makers Mark is the last resort – you use it when you are really desperate (for example, when you craft Onishi / Nightsteel items while having just 5 pieces of Ala Mhigan + 1 BSM primary weapon, and the rest lvl290 twinsilk/molybden gear. Then yes – I was using Makers Mark too! Otherwise IMHO you have to be mad to use 62-key (!!!) rotations just because you can’t optimize a short and nice Muscle Memory rotation… So once again, that’s not me “chopping wings”, but rather someone else uses heavy cannon where a simple rocket is more than enough. The tricky question is, though: how the hell can one teach Miqo to use this rocket…
But this thread has already grown into a holy war which is completely unnecessary. If youre good with macros then stick with them nobody is going to punish you for that. Miqo supports macros and crafting solver and both features are working great.
Waging another war was not really my intent – I was just trying to learn how to make Miqo waste less time (if possible), just because Miqo for some reason presses start key before any calculations, I can’t eat and drink while craft is started, so 5 mins of food and drinks just to to waste. So you are going to say that you pre-set some kind of start sequence, then let Miqo calculate the rest, which means you can actually use Innovation AND synthesis in the end, without waiting for 22 mins?
That’s why I’d much much rather run my own macros than trust miqo with the solver ^^
+++ 😉
Those arent stats you can achieve with “one single overmeld”. Most of those come from pentamelds I’d wager. Also, anyone invested in crafting is going to pentameld, or close to it.
Well, not 2 weeks before major content patch… I’m not going to make real profits out of Rakshasa (who ever buys it still?) – rather it was like a challenge to me, “if I am able or I am not”. And yes, it was nice to know that yes, I am… Also I wanted to refute this old quote:
So in comparison, if a macro is a pistol and a human who knows what he does is a rifle, Miqobot’s crafting solver is a ship-mounted railgun.
So, this is plain wrong. If in-game macro is a pistol (pure bulls**t), then AHK script is a chaingun (very fast, while not really accurate), Miqo is a tank gun (way more accurate, but still not 100%… and also SLOW AND HEAVY LIKE HELL), and human who REALLY knows what he is doing is a shoulder-mounted anti-materiel guided thermite missile – light, extremely accurate and even more powerful than tank shell.
Hmm, what the heck…? I’ve detached one of my attachments due to a misclick, and not I lost ability to edit my own posts… Ok, here is the attach lost.
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This reply was modified 5 years, 5 months ago by Gray.
Ahha! So you actually start from a given “preset”, and then let Miqo calculate the rest? Or you just use HQ base materials?
P.S. EEEEKS! 1729 Control on the WORST class, and that’s w/o food? I’ve got about 1600 WITH food… Well then, no surprise that you get HQ Rakshasa out of NQ mats – but it’s not like everyone can invest THAT much millions into overmelds! Well-made script. on the other hand, allows you fail-safe HQ creation even with not more than a single overmeld on each item…
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This reply was modified 5 years, 5 months ago by Gray.
Miqobot can only fail (= no success at HQ) Rakshasa gear for two reasons:
1. Your stats are waaaay too low = You are doing it wrong. Miqo can do miracles in crafting, but no witchcraft with too low statsWell, look at attachment #1. This is my script to craft Hawk’s Eye Sand (exact stats are edited out to protect the innocent, but they are high enough, as you can see). Now I’ve just rechecked (while launching Miqo today, to make sure it is the last stable version) – I entrusted this task to Miqo: craft Sand out of NQ materials, but with a Specialist (!) crafter. It has to be absolutely fail-safe, if I manage it with a script, right? Ok, I can’t let it have progress in the end (or it’s going to calculate for 22 mins, which is unacceptable), nor I can allow it to use
ImpregnationInnovation, because of the same reason. Ok, look at the attachment #2: here is a variant with progress in the beginning and no Innovation. Still fail-safe, right? Well, now look at attachment #3… this is the way Miqo chose after 5 mins of “thinking”. So either I am doing something wrong, or Miqo is not for fail-safe endgame crafting, sorry… It didn’t even try to use Hasty Touch II, which brings way more quality per CP spent!Note: my gf is using Miqo to level up DoH skills of our second account, and she is quite happy with it. She is not really a mastermind here, though (I am). So yes, it works up to lvl70 (though I dunno yet how much calculation time is it going to take once our second char reaches lvl50 inter-class skills)… but lvl70*** and especially lvl70**** crafts are just completely another story.
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This reply was modified 5 years, 5 months ago by Gray.
Right now I’m leveling up DoH skills on the second account, with Miqo this time (while my main is not busy grinding with Miqo). And… either I’m doing something wrong, or Crafter solver behaves weirdly. Let’s take an example: newbie lvl15-20 materials, craftable in a single Careful Synthesis, 230+ CP. The best possible sequence looks like the following:
Inner Quiet
Waste Not
Steady Hand
Basic Touch
Basic Touch
Standard Touch
Standard Touch
Standard Touch
Careful SynthesisThis way all Touch actions are covered by Steady Hand. Of course, Touches are exchangeable (i.e. Standard when Good condition, otherwise Basic). Well, suffice to say, Miqo never finds this sequence. It tries different ones, depending on condition; sometimes it uses Standard Touch (on Good condition) before Waste Not or even before Steady Hand, but it never “learns” that it should start from Waste Not, so the last Touch action always lacks Steady Hand buff. Moreover, when there is just 10 durability left AND Waste Not is active AND it has enough CPs left (seldom happens when there were too many Good conditions at begin, before using Waste Not), it instantly uses Careful Synthesis without using the last Touch.
So I want to ask: does Miqo “know” that it does not actually need 10 durability to use Careful Synthesis? Does it “know” that 5 is enough?
It’s about 10 minutes of daily work to do all 3 Namazu beast tribe quests.
Player time is way more valuable than bot time, as far as my experience tells me… Why not just set bot on something that brings profit, then just buy these stormsap-based mats from market? I mean, they cost just some 10-20k per item – isn’t that nothing for a bot owner?
Most grids are far from perfect anyway, so ones who use them without any editing (especially simple “star” girds with a single central beacon) should blame themselves if they get banned. These grids can be example for complete Miqo newbies, though. And I don’t really believe locking the section would make us any safer. However, if it gets locked, I won’t cry: I make my grids myself anyway.
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This reply was modified 5 years, 5 months ago by
