[GraySpectator]

Geez, but that’s… incredible? Solo FATE farming is really crappy source of exp (compared to dungeons), and MSQ will take MONHTS to complete! On the other hand, such minor things as vendor support would take, dunno, a hour/two of coding (just take turn-in code and expand it a bit), and it would help everyone who farms some kinds of material goodies (as opposed to abstract matters like exp) to make fully self-sufficient toons! You know, make it rely on sendKey() is a solution really really far from optimal (unless you’ve got an absolutely stable link)… Miqo team, any chance you do at least minor “Quality of life” improvements (well most wanted of them) between such large projects as combat assist and PotD/HoH/MSQ?

[GraySpectator]

I join the question! Would be really nice to receive a little hope boost by knowing at least some ETA for long-delayed requested features (and which features exactly)…

[GraySpectator]

Try pressing Ctrl to switch to alternate edit.

[GraySpectator]

zgo63925 wrote:

Don’t expect that too work, most if not all DoW/M have 3 full hotbars, DoH have 3-4 depending on specialist. Thats how it is.

It works already… though, I’m not sure if it works at high enough efficiency (at least 95% or so). This is why I asked: tell me what did I lose? Are there any abilities better that above mentioned 24? Can you show me any efficient sequences which rely on abilities not included in my list of 24?

[GraySpectator]

Lyfox wrote:

You can make any hotbar class related. Character Config > Hotbar > Sharing. I have 5.

Hmmm… either I’m using wrong terminology, or you get it all wrong. I’ve got 3 hotbars displayed at any time / any class. Third of them is shared (i.e. it is always the same, for any class). The first two change as soon as I change class, which is why I call them class-specific. This is why I want to define 24 most useful abilities – so I can put them into 2 class hotbars of every DoH class.

P.S. Also I hope applying Ockham’s Razor at DoH abilities gonna make Crafter Solver work faster. 3 mins of “thinking” before 1 min of actual craft is but pain in my arse…

• This reply was modified 5 years, 5 months ago by  Gray.

[GraySpectator]

Mkay… another question, then. Can scenario launch another scenario? Say, I made a set of scenarios. Now I’m going check my stock and set today’s activities for my toon as a set of scenarios with timers: do this one for given amount of hours, then that one for some more hours, while skipping the third one totally because I have yet to sell what I farmed yesterday?

If it’s not possible, then an alternate solution: is it possible to #define sets of actions in the beginning of a “metascenario”? Say, I make a scenario which consists of chapters like “DEFINE1; workFor(1:0:0); DEFINE2; workFor(1:0:0)” and so on. Then I can just reserve the first chapter for defines, and quickly copypaste them from a file to create today’s schedule.

[GraySpectator]

repeatChapterUntil() is placed in the end of chapter, yet it can interrupt a chapter in the middle of it. How so? Is there any way to make sure it FINISHES a chapter before going for the next one when time goes out?

[GraySpectator]

zgo63925 wrote:

If you always go for 100% success rate abilities you will craft very inefficient.

I wonder how can crafting 99.8% HQ stuff out of NQ mats can ever be inefficient %)

zgo63925 wrote:

Hasty Touch is so good because it does not use any CP, which in turn allows for more durability increases…

… until you run out of durability, which is quite fast. And then you will have to restore it twice where I restore it just once. And you will have to spend CP restoring it! CP CP CP!

Ah, whatever. I.e. use whatever you want. Still, my math is above, and I have yet to see any better math…

[GraySpectator]

zgo63925 wrote:

its not a guarantee but a good boost.

It can’t be “good boost” if it’s not guaranteed. Remember that Good+ appears just once per 5 steps, while you get just 2 chances to launch a Good conditioned Byregot before Great Strides wears off. Though, in case you won’t get as lucky, you waste 14 CPs AND 2 charges of Steady Hand 2! I’d rather use it for Innovation… granted, it gives just 1.5 higher effect compared to 2x higher condition-related, but at least this is a guaranteed outcome, which is enough in 100% cases (at least, during the last 2.5 months I play the game).

[GraySpectator]

zgo63925 wrote:

It’s patient touch, not prudent touch and you pretty much agree with me. Patient outperforms Hasty, as Miqo themselfs said.

… I’m lost. Prudent Touch is a thing which costs 21 CP and 5 dur, and it rocks; Patient Touch costs 6 CP and 10 dur, has 50% reliability, extra very dangerous effect of halving stack of Inner, and thus sucks. Are you sure you agree with me?…

zgo63925 wrote:

Patient outperforms Hasty, as Miqo themselfs said.

Maybe (=nfc), but Miqo devs also said that:

Hasty Touch: 29.6%
Hasty Touch II: 21.5%
Patient Touch: 41.5%
Patient Touch vs HT2: 25.9%
Patient Touch vs HT+HT2: 19.4%
Prudent Touch: 12.2%

which is plain wrong, unless you never use Manipulation. Prudent Touch just can’t be outperformed by either of Hasty Touches!

[GraySpectator]

zgo63925 wrote:

How much each of them would contribute to the 100% HQ you can reach, compared to not having them at all is my guess.

Compared to not having WHAT? Not having any abilities at all? Well heh, as long as you are able to finish the craft, you get infinity percent of contribution compared to not having abilities at all 🙂

Or does that mean percentage of additional quality gained when using a single given multiclass ability compared to not having any multiclass, just class specific? But, then, once again: compared to which class-specific? Basic AAR, or HW/SB included?

zgo63925 wrote:

Also I disagree alot with your “useless” abilities, observe is mandatory to allign finishers with good quality

o_O What? Can I see an example of such a sequence?

zgo63925 wrote:

patient touch outperforms hasty touch.

As I’ve said before, I’m not going to discuss non-reliable abilities. I seldom use even Hasty touches because of this reason… let alone something as dangerous as Patient.

zgo63925 wrote:

And in general my question was which abilities are never ever used, not by miqo, not by macros, not by manual crafting.

Used by whom? Miqo uses lots of abilities, some players might use them as well… which, still, does not necessarily make these abilities any good. If you want to have just 2 class-specific tabs, you have to sacrifice something, you know… and I’d say: let’s sacrifice unreliable ones!

[GraySpectator]

New Hasty Touch II does not require a cross class slot, but old Hasty Touch is still better in performance.
While it seems that 90% success rate is better than 80%, the extra cost of 5 CP makes a big difference. Considering that Steady Hand II must be present for both skills, HT costs 5 CP per step and HT2 costs 10 CP per step.
Total CP consumption is doubled. Additional 10% rate is not enough to justify this change.

Also, this part (from the same topic mentioned, which is closed for replies) is questionable. Well, it might be correct in case of the sequence which does not include any durability-restoring actions; otherwise (i.e. in 95% cases) you have to add these to calculations as well! Let’s take Basic Touch as an example: it wastes 10 dur, which means (in terms of Manipulation II) 96/8*2 = 24 CP spent to restore them. This means total cost per effect received:

Basic Touch = 18 + 5 (Steady Hand II / 5) + 24 (Manipulation II / 4) = 47 CP per 100% quality.

Now let’s calculate the same value for higher level skills:

Standard Touch = 32 + 4.4 (Steady Hand I / 5) + 24 = 60.4 per 125%, or 48.32 per 100%.
Advanced Touch = 48 + 4.4 + 24 = 76.4 / 1.5 = 51 per 100%.
Hasty Touch = 0 + 5 + 24 = 29 per 100% with 80% reliability ~= 29 per 80% = 36.25 per 100%.
Hasty Touch II = 5 + 5 + 24 = 34 per 90% ~= 37.(7) per 100%.
Prudent Touch = 21 + 5 + 12 (Manipulation II / 8) = 38 per 100%.

So, as you can see, while “old” touches can be forgotten (except for using Precise Touch instead of Basic Touch), difference in CP cost relative to quality received between Hasty and Prudent is negligible. Now that you take into account that Prudent Touch also builds stack of Inner Quiet twice as fast compared to either of Hasty, you should realize that it’s Prudent Touch which is the best quality-building skill of Stormblood, not Hasty Touch!

[GraySpectator]

zgo63925 wrote:

Read from this post downwards.

I read it long ago, yet never understood this part: “if crafting rotation would be 100% optimal, how much value would each action contribute”. Contribute in comparison to WHAT, excuse me? To bare class-specific abilities?

• This reply was modified 5 years, 5 months ago by  Gray.

[GraySpectator]

ibdopeness wrote:

Sure I can force a cordial at 500 GP that an easy solution

Hmmm… care to share this solution? %) For I know just two ways to deal with the problem: either force cordial with sendKey EVERY time (which will go through even if GPs are at their max, which means waste), or I let Miqo handle it, and Miqo never drinks cordials when your GPs are higher than max-300…

ibdopeness wrote:

The whole point of botting is efficiency, in my eyes.

Well my too, that’s why I object. One minute of farm is about 7k gil, while cordial costs almost nothing (some 700 gil average), so there is a very narrow window where you can allow your toon waiting instead of using cordial – 6 sec wide window, that is, which means 12 GPs less than [amount needed for gathering]. Not quite worth the effort, IMHO…

[GraySpectator]

Excellent question! I wanted to ask this one myself, as I struggle hard to keep just 3 hotbars used in my client for any class (2 class-related + 1 shared, with macroses, sprint, teleport, consumables etc). So let’s discuss which abilities are great and which are useless! I’ll bring here a well-known quote from Miqo statistics which I don’t quite understand:

1. Ingenuity I or II:          38.9% to average HQ rate
2. Byregot's Blessing:         33.3%
3. Maker's Mark:               26.6%
4. Flawless Synthesis:         - (required for Maker's Mark)
5. Comfort Zone:               20.2%
6. Piece by Piece:             13.0%
7. Tricks of the Trade:        9.8%
8. Steady Hand II:             6.5%
9. Innovation:                 4.4%
10. Reclaim:                   -

Hasty Touch:                   2.0%
Careful Synthesis II:          1.2%
Rapid Synthesis:               1.3%
Rumination:                    0.0014%
Waste Not I:                   0.00072%
Waste Not II:                  0%
Manipulation I:                0%
Careful Synthesis I:           0%
Muscle Memory:                 0% (3.7% when no Maker's Mark)

Most of it makes sense, but there are exceptions. First, I just don’t understand these percentages (i.e. these are percentages of WHAT?), so I just put my own ones – approximate percentages of crafts I am performing in the endgame which use this or that skill. My list of shared abilities (for lvl70) looks like this:

1. Byregot’s Blessing – 100%. EVER useful. Period.
2. Steady Hand II – 95%: ever useful, in almost every craft except for lvl60 collectables which can be done with Steady Hand I + Standard Touch.
3. Comfort Zone – 95%: same as above.
4. Ingenuity I – 90%: almost always useful for lvl70 recipes, at least to improve Synthesis actions.
5. Innovation – 90%: always used to buff the last Touch action before Byregot’s Blessing plus Byregot itself (unless recipe is lvl68-, which can be easily crafted without much tricks).
6. Muscle Memory – 85%: it’s fast and reliable, so unless you can make something in just 3 Careful Synthesis II or less, you should start with it.
7. Careful Synthesis II – 50%: if you don’t need Careful Synthesis III, why waste CPs?
8. Piece by Piece – 20%: used in 70**+ crafts only, the rest can be done with Careful Synthesis II / III (unless your eq is crap).
9. Hasty Touch – 10%: substitute to Hasty Touch II when you don’t have enough CPs.
10. Reclaim – well, everyone makes mistakes, me included. At least you get materials back if you forgot to drink fresh tea before another craft, so you have to keep this thingie in shared hotbar, I think.

11+12. Maker’s Mark / Flawless Synthesis – 5%: “the last resort – use when everything else fails” actions; they require too much rl time, so I used it for Rakshasa crafts only (which are mostly useless now) – the rest can be easily crafted even from NQ base mats using Muscle Memory (unless your eq is crap, once again). Just put it in tab of multiclass skills when needed – most classes have 1 to 4 empty slots in this tab anyway, so you can replace Muscle Memory (and Hasty Touch in case of LTW which has no useful endgame multiclass skills) with these two.
– Manipulation I: useful until lvl64 in 40 durability [material] crafts, obsolete upon receiving Manipulation II.
– Waste Not I: useful until lvl35-49 in 40 durability [material] crafts, while you don’t have enough CPs to use Manipulation I, obsolete after that.
– Careful Synthesis I: useful until lvl49, obsolete upon receiving Careful Synthesis II.
– Rumination: useful until lvl49, while you don’t have Byregot’s Blessing; 100% obsolete after that. I personally use it at low levels for a single purpose: to turn Inner Quiet charges into CPs at the end of craft to cast Ingenuity I before Synthesis actions (as in most cases I skip Synthesis until the end).
– Tricks of the Trade – I don’t use it at all, as almost every my sequence contains at least one replaceable Basic Touch, and in most cases I use Precise Touch instead of it. 1 extra charge of Inner Quiet is WAY better bonus than pitiful 20 CP.
– Rapid Synthesis: unreliable = useless.
– Waste Not II: ever useless. There are no crafts with 8 durability-consuming actions in the row, so part of this skill charges would always go to waste.

Now the rest (class-specific) skills:

13. Inner Quiet – 100%: ever useful. Period. It’s +20% power to every following Touch per charge, you know?
14. Great Strides – 100%: ever useful. Period. Always used to buff Byregot’s Blessing; sometimes also the last Touch action (if you can afford the CP cost).
15. Prudent Touch – 100%: ever useful. Period. The best ever possible ability to amass Inner Quiet charges. It’s safe to have at least one Prudent Touch in every craft, as it comes virtually for no durability “price”; in most cases I just have odd number of Prudents in my crafts (up to as many as 9).
16. Basic Touch – 95%: almost ever useful, since beginning until the end. In endgame crafts acts as placeholder for Precise Touch (if you can afford its durability cost, otherwise you have to resort to using Hasty Touch II).
17. Manipulation II – 95%: the best existing durability-restoring action atm.
18. Careful Synthesis III – 75%: often useful once-twice-trice when Careful Synthesis II is not enough.
19. Hasty Touch II – 25%: sometimes used when not enough CPs to use Basic Touch.
20. Initial Preparations – 15%: specialists only, otherwise it a) costs too much for its unreliable bonus, and the most important b) occupies skill #1 in the sequence which should be reserved for Muscle Memory more often than not.
21. Reflect – see above.
21. Observe – 5%: I’ve got just a single non-specialist craft which needs something to fill an empty spot in Comfort Zone sequence before using the second Comfort Zone, and lacks exactly 1 CP without it.
22. Steady Hand I – 10%: seldom used when crafting ilvl380 gear to buff Piece by Piece or crafting tons of midlevel collectables (Loquat, Buckwheat and so on) using the shortest possible 8-key sequences.
23. Standard Touch – 5%: see the latter part of the above.
24. Collectable Synthesis.
– Master’s Mend II – useful until lvl64, obsolete upon receiving Manipulation II.
– Master’s Mend I – useless, except for levels below 15 (after that use Waste Not I for 40dur crafts, and Manipulation I or better Master’s Mend II for the rest).
– Basic Synthesis – useless, except for levels below 15. Dixi (which means: NO, I’m NOT going to participate in “Basic vs Careful I Synthesis” flamewar, because reliability is everything to me).
– Patient Touch – unreliable = useless.
– Focused Synthesis – useless (too high relative cost compared to Piece by Piece / Careful Synthesis III + waste of Ingenuity charges).
– Focused Touch – ever useless, compared to Steady Hand II + Prudent Touch combo.

Did I miss something?
/discuss

• This reply was modified 5 years, 5 months ago by  Gray.
• This reply was modified 5 years, 5 months ago by  Gray.
• This reply was modified 5 years, 5 months ago by  Gray.
• This reply was modified 5 years, 5 months ago by  Gray.
• This reply was modified 5 years, 5 months ago by  Gray.
• This reply was modified 5 years, 5 months ago by  Gray.
• This reply was modified 5 years, 5 months ago by  Gray.

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