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Coming in patch 4.57 which is late April iirc.
Yehoo! So I definitely arrived here just in time. Great news, thanks a lot! Now I just hope devs actually do what they promised, hehehe.
Oh, and I hope devs don’t read this forum 8)
Now this got me thinking. Were all speaking from a single realm point of view. But this is an RMT topic.
If you want to cover demand for all players you arent going to pick a realm. You cant simply move gil from one realm to another. Even World Visit wont let you transfer between Data Centers. So you have to farm them all.It shouldn’t be a real problem, from my experience. It’s hard to farm game currency (WITHOUT hopping between some ten farm spots for ten different kinds of goodies); though, it’s pretty damn easy to sell goodies for $1000 or even $5000 a month to just several dozens of rich buyers. From what I remember, the average bill was around $20-$30, so that’s basically a hundred of transactions per month. Now take into account that some players buy twice-trice per month… I think it shouldn’t be hard to find some 30-50 buyers among 9000 players of a single server.
But on 66 realms youre looking at 66 millions/day.
So.. $3000/month?Now that I know here could be 9999 shards per listing, I’ll definitely consider this idea =)
Exactly. That’s exactly how it works. You can only buy a whole listing all at once in FFXIV as well. So if you put a stack of 99 infusions on the market board, if anyone wants to buy from you, he has to buy all 99 infusions at once or skip your listing for a cheaper listing, where people are selling a smaller bulk.
Well……. this sucks major @$$ – what else could I say? Devs are morons copying this market behavior from WoW rather than from EVE (where you can buy a single item out of 1000-item sell order). But oh well. I guess when I run out of listings on my char and all his “hirelings-for-$2-monthly” (or whatever it was called), I just place my stuff in bulks of 99 cheap, in hope that some amateur trader comes, buys the whole my listing, splits it into 20 small listings of 5 items each and resells at some 1.5 higher price per item. Retailers ho!
For 2 reasons:
1. You can only be online with 1 character per account at the same time. Once you open a second instance of the game and try to log in, your other character gets logged out, so you need multiple game accounts to with a monthly 12$ subscription to farm the mats and trade them to your RMT selling account.
2. For mass shard farming you will need like hundreds of accounts and I doubt it is anywhere profitable to buy the game a few hundred times just for shard farming.What’s wrong with an account that brings me 1-3 mil/day (30-90 mil/month = $30-90/month) and pay for it $12 to gave devs without card fraud or alike rl crime? $50 monthly per each account is quite decent profit, too (assuming one have got lots of them, hehe).
Merging markets does not really change supply or demand. Just makes it more evenly spread across data center.
It would just help supply and demand to find each other. Let’s say there is a server where my toon resides; it is specialized in farming materials and using them to craft certain set of Rather Useful Equipment, and yes I mean lots and lots of this eq. As demand is low (say, every player needs 1 item), some week or two pass, everyone of 9000 players of this server get a piece each, and prices go down to oblivion. On the other hand, there might be ten more servers in the same data center where prices are still high – just because there are no professional botters, so nobody produces this stuff in bulk. Though, once people from other servers gain ability to visit my one and buy my stuff, I will be able to cover demand of all of them!
Did I take it right: devs promised this feature, and MAYBE it gets released some day?
Set up a few accounts, that can amass tons of gil. Those are your factory and those should never be advertising RMT. Create a new account via VPN, for RMT selling the gil (so SE can’t track your IP and link that account to your “factory”), transfer the gil from your factory characters over multiple mails to the RMT character and sell the gil from that account. The RMT account might be banned, but the likelyhood of your factory getting banned is much lower, since Square Enix only bans people based on in-game activity reported by players.
There is no such thing as “activity reported” in my case. I do not keep some special chars standing in the middle of central square of some capital city in the game, spamming advertising – shops do that instead. Or rather they advertise via some other ways, it does not matter. Yes they consume half of the money spent by end user, but that’s fair. The only thing I do is to log in my char and transfer game money to buyer. Buyer won’t report it (indeed, unless it was GMs’ bait, but this never happened to me); other players just never learn about it. That’s why there is no need for throwaway accounts: in case GMs somehow discover this deal, they track the whole chain of mails and containers and ban me anyway. Also, every “middleman” account in the chain needs to be paid, right? This is going to consume quite a bit of real money monthly, I’m afraid…
You don’t need a high level weapon. No. That’s true. However, you need a high level crafting mainhand. As explained a few times before: Unlike WoW, where crafting is just a skill that you level up, in FFXIV crafters are fully fledged jobs themselves and to craft the endgame stuff that is in high-demand you need at least the absolute high-end gear with decent materia melds, which still costs a few million gil (rough estimation: 1-4 million).
WHAT? :)) $1-4? THAT cheap? I mean, heck, equipping EVE grinding toon means about 2 billion of isk + almost a month of [offline] skill training; this basically means about $8 according to current black market prices. $1-4, on the other hand, is nothing! Why would I ever spend a month if I can just transfer that much gil from some my chars which survived the ban (if any), and insta equip my new character as soon as it is leveled up, completed plotline and so forth (i.e. several days playtime)?
However, you should know yourself, that WoW only has like 2-4 million active players right now.
5 millions, according to official statistics.
See it more as an investment. You invest 2-4 months of work into it, then you have the knowledge about the game and in case something gets banned it only takes you 1-2 months to get things back, but if you play it safe you won’t get banned at all and you can get a consistent source of money out of it.
Let’s clarify: that was 1-2 month of MANUAL playing, or what? That would be completely unacceptable 🙂
Yeahno. Once that major
patchexpansion drops prices rocket-jump for a few days/weeks, then sink to an average for the next few months, then drop low for 1-2 months before the next major patch which is every 6 months after the one before.Don’t forget to read my big post on page 2. As I said, I’ve invested 2.5 hours into making it, so it better be worth it.
Thank you, it definitely was!
You’re so focused on wanting to make real money out of it, that you thought we were there for the same reason, since the creation of this bot 3 years ago, I think you’re the 1st one mentioning you’re here to make real money.
Nah 🙂 If I thought that you are about RMT as well, then I would never post anything, assuming that I never get any answers. Each new RMT guy in the area is a new rival, you know… no other RMTers would help him to start up.
Legit players and even casual botters, on the other hand, might profit from a RMT-oriented professional: guys like me perform the most boring part of farm with farm of many bots, thus filling the market with cheap mats, making it easier to craft decent stuff.
Miqobot remove those grinds, but long grinds doesn’t mean the content is not fun, it means it’s too long, and more importantly, there’s too many content, more than one person can handle without spending his life on it. So Miqobot takes over when you feel you don’t have enough time.
This is but a word-play 🙂 “Fun, but just too long to be fun at the long run” basically means “still boring”, hehehehe.
We tried to warn you, Gathering and Crafting in FFXIV end-game requires the BiS gear set, and almost the best melding (even if Miqobot algorithms are state of the art and required the equivalent of an engineering thesis for their creation, I’m not joking, it still needs good gear if you want to get High Quality reliably)(and the recipes are also locked to you if you don’t pass a very high threshold of stats).
But almost the best melding still means what Arc said, anywhere between millions to tens of millions, 3 times per 2 years.That why we didn’t understand each other 🙂 I mean, “a weapon +16” in L2 means “some $1000”, while “ten millions of gil” means “$10” (= nothing / not worth mentioning).
The bot will need to be rebuilt to take every new stuff into account. And for crafting, adding new actions can literally mean exploding the possibilities to the point the bot would need hours and peta octet of RAM to store the solution, that’s what happened 2 years ago, and the dev had to re-imagine their algorithms to bypass those limitations, and this can take weeks or month.
Hmmm… I wonder if I should try to join Miqo team instead 🙂 After all, optimisation theory & automated systems is my rl specialisation (and I mean official uni grade, yes). Too bad I know nothing about injection & reverse engineering, otherwise I would have set up my own bot, hehehe…
But if you plan to level up to the new cap (80) and exploit the market as soon as possible, you better take into account you might have no bot for several days, then a half working bot for several weeks/month, and then again the best product on the market. That’s unavoidable.
I know – that’s how it goes in case of almost every MMO bot.
And secondly, did you ever read what I wrote about the World Visit feature that will release before next expansion?
Yes I did (seriously)! Though, there is a little problem: how often does such event happen? Once per 3 months for several days? Maybe once per month? But the problem is that one needs to eat EVERY day, rather than wait until some event happens in the game where his farm is… hehe.
You read in diagonal
Sorry, sorry and sorry %) I mean, it takes hours to answer here, and I’m posting on boards of 3 other games at the same time (trying to choose the best one), so yes… I might miss/forget some stuff, indeed. Still, thank you (once again) for the info you post – I might reread and understand it later, once I gather some game experience!
It’s not that simple. Right now you can still make millions, you can always make millions, I’m making millions right now, but not out of craft, out of end-game tradable loot from Baldesion Arsenal, and logos from Eureka.
Actually, what I meant was: is it possible to make millions via botting rather than via manual play – right now, 2 months before major patch, when everything farmable from the previous content is farmed long ago, and is worth nothing to majority of players (who just wait for the new content)?
However, going for, say, $1500 for the first month after content-patch, then $1000 for the second month and then taking a month of break while there is no point to farm should be ok too, I think.
Arc, thank you for the detailed post! and sorry I wasn’t able to answer it yesterday (was falling asleep already).
You mentioned a key point there: There is basically low demand on every item in this game, because you can get almost everything without ever spending a single gil.
This applies to every game in the world (except ones where some things come into the game due to donation of real money, and can’t be farmed manually). Yes I know – you can obtain everything yourself… though, it requires TIME. Now, there are people whose RL time costs a real lot, so they do not want to waste it on farming/crafting in the game – they want to come and rock, this is why they spend RL money to receive lots of gil, and then spend gil on in-game market to receive everything they need. This is my target audience, as I’ve said before… So the question #1 for me is: if there is a lot of such players in FFXIV or no? And yes I know I’m not getting an answer here… it’s kind of rhetorical.
With “high demand”, like on the buff pots I mentioned before, I mean that the players, who don’t have crafters leveled themselves, don’t have friends who can craft and go into high-end raiding.
This! is the whole my point. See, every normal endgame raiding player in every game has friendly crafters who can craft anything for free – you just have to bring them mats required for craft and ask nicely. Though, can you ask your friend nicely “please, can you… grind mats for me for hours, so I can craft an item for myself using these mats?” I doubt it 😉
My point is: the hardest part of MMORPG is not about craft… it’s about grind. Yes, crafter can receive major profit here and there… but that’s unreliable profit, based on chance. I.e. today you buy mats for a million and sell an item for two millions, having million of profit; tomorrow prices drop down being undercut by other crafters, and you sell at 1,100,000, having just 100k of profit. Though, the only steady and reliable source of income has to be gathering. You video confirms it: 3 mins to create some metal bar is nothing (a friend can do it), while gathering mats for hours and days is something nobody would do for free.
The thing is, that to work that way in FFXIV you need a huge gil base to begin with. Only maybe 1% of all players has the means to do so. So by this logic the only way you could apply your system to FFXIV would be to get a max level, fully geared, all unlocked high-end crafter, which takes months to do, amass several hundreds of millions of gil in the first place, which would also take a few months at first and then you can start your system.
And if anything happens, that gets you banned, all that work until then is wasted.Exactly! That’s why I say: it is not important how much can you earn as a well-geared “all unlocked high-end” character, being manually played several hours per day (I mean, who would be able to play more than several hours on DAILY basis?) Important thing for a [potential] botter is – how much can you earn with a common botting character, grinding something 24/7 (assuming that you don’t get banned for that). Note that “common botting character” means:
– MSQ completed;
– decent level (maximal, most probably – unless there is a “soft cap” in the game);
– 1-2-3 skills maxed, corresponding “walls” unlocked;
– average stuff (minimally needed to grind, i.e. minimal “melding materia” and so on, just because you can’t afford losing char worth hundreds of millions of gil in a ban).
“And nothing else matters” (C).Even good market board players might only earn like 5 million daily, from my estimation.
Well… Either you do not know something about earning money with bot, or I’ve got bad news. $5 per day is really, really, really low profit business. I mean, during the time EVE was REALLY popular (i.e. more than ten years ago) it was common to encounter a guy piloting ship of total cost (fitting included) higher than his (player’s) RL gear. It was ok to farm anomalies solo piloting capital-class supercarrier (something like Star Destroyer in Star Wars galaxy – i.e. there is nothing better except for Death Star, hehe) of total worth about $500 or so. Now keep in mind that it took maybe… dunno, some 300-600 hours playtime to reach this level manually (as opposed to investing $500 via “black market”). I.e. basically a hour of playtime was worth $1. A bit better than $5 daily (24h), eh? Maybe Carl Arbogast is wrong, and FFXIV is not really as popular as (s)he thinks? I mean, when game is popular, ppl tend to invest lots of real money into it…
Yes, yes and yes.
First of all, it is hard to craft them. Here is a video of someone crafting an evergleam ingot in High Quality. Miqobot is a bit faster, but you’re still looking at about 2-3 minutes to craft a single evergleam ingot in HQ.Insane 😀 Thanks bunch, I’d never expect to see as complicated process as this in a computer game crafting, hehe!
Secondly, as I mentioned, one of the 3 components of that ingot is Gyr Abanian Carbon Rods. You can only buy them for ridiculous prices on the MB (which almost no one does) or via an untradable currency, that you obtain for doing any max-level instanced content. Grinding that currency is extremely slow, but it’s something everyone does automatically by simply playing the game normally.
How high is “ridiculous price”? 50k gil or so?
My point is: there is no such thing as “ridiculous price”. Look, every item (both in a game or in RL) costs as much as you can receive for selling it. People do not sell these carbon rods cheap? So maybe that’s because of slow grinding rate? I mean, if someone spends all his “untradable currency” to craft these rods for you, and then there is a need to craft something for himself using this currency, he’s going to kick himself in the balls. So I guess it’s not like “I’ve bought ore for 13k and sold ingot for 84k*0.9 = 75k, having 62k of profit per 3 min of crafting”… it’s more like “I’ve bought ore for 13k and rod for 50k, then sold ingot for 75k, having 12k of profit”, no?
More realistic would be 90-180k per day.
Does not sound like fun 🙁
If you know what to do, what to sell and you’re fast in providing the necessary items, you can make somewhere between 10-40 million per day the first few days after an even patch launches.
That’s just a few days… and then? What is the average income?
Simple: If you undercut an item by 1 gil, you move up in the list on the marketboard. Items on the MB are sorted by price per piece. Not by price per bulk. And players always buy the cheapest one.
I understand that 🙂 but you aren’t getting my point. And my point is: I do not want to play manually, and Miqobot can not undercut at market for me. So, basically, I want to enter market once a day and put my loot at such price so I can be sure that people buy it before I bring the next haul.
The only thing that happens, when you undercut by 30% is, that you annoy other players and they still undercut you.
That’s how I usually work, yes. Other farmers/crafters get annoyed today, they get annoyed tomorrow, and the day after tomorrow they stop even checking this item. They stop farming mats for it and stop crafting it, because profit per hour is just too low. It means that from now this is MY corner of the market: I can safely farm, craft and put my production on market… until I get banned, hehe.
I mean, of course there are always random players who sell this item as well (just because it dropped, and they do not need it). But it does not matter… Let’s say there is average weekly demand of 1000 of some items. To me, it’s ok that random players undercut me with small listings of 1-2 items, total 100-200 per week… as long as the rest demand is covered by me.
No. You simply don’t sell your items at all, because several players play the market board like that and you get undercut within a few minutes by 10 different players, who are playing the market board. The problem here is, that there is more supply than demand, for anything.
Then Luluna is right: this is a wrong game for botting. It’s really too bad that gathering is too fun… so much fun so there is no place for botter, no demand for items which come from bots, mostly.
The point you are missing is, that FFXIV is not a world full of inflation, like other MMOs. Quite the opposite: It’s a world with a massive deflation. Items get cheaper every few minutes, because gil is almost meaningless.
Oh, sorry, my bad… let me explain – I meant inflation of game valuables rather than inflation of gil. Basically, it means inflation of your rl time spent in the game. RL inflation is like “you have to spend more coins to buy the same stuff compared to yesterday”; game inflation is like “you have to spend more time today to earn the same amount of bucks compared to yesterday”.
According to his census in January there were about 608,000 active players worldwide, across all servers (there are 66 different servers in the game). Here is a link to a translation of his data. There you will also find things like active player count per server, etc.
Thank you! I have doubts now that I even try this game at all; but if I do, I certainly check it!
Also, feel free to share information you gather with us. We also share valuable information here and provide pretty useful community-made tools for efficient botting. Also, if you ever need a specific scenario for something, also feel free to ask nicely for it. Surely one (most likely Lyfox, as he is pretty much our biggest contributor here) might help you out.
I’ll sure do (in case I choose this game) 🙂 Though, I should probably apologize in advance: most probably my reports will be full of bitter frustration due to market volatility and necessity to perform lots of actions manually rather than setting up bot to do it…
And no, not until the next expansion, but until the next patch with increased gear tier, which is every 6 months.
Aha, this is definitely better!
Gather the materials and craft a truckload of infusions (about 1000 of each (strength, intelligence, dexterity, mind – no one uses vitality) and keep about 75% of all your retainers selling those in packs of 3-9. That way you sell them pretty quickly and consistently.
Wait, why “3-9”? Do you mean that if I put a listing of 99 items on the market them ppl will have to either buy all 99 of them, or skip it, like in WoW? Why can’t I just put stacks of 99 useful items per listing (or rather, max possible for this item), so people can buy as much as they need?
Check your retainers every 30-60 minutes and undercut people by 1-100 gil.
You miss my point…
Look, it is a RMT bot farm I’m talking about – not some legit playing. RMT botting works like the following;
– I wake up and check my farm – all my accounts which were “working” at night. I gather their loot and put it on market at low enough price, to be sure that everything gets sold before the next bunch arrives. I move my toons to some other spots if needed (say, if market is overloaded with items from previous farm spot), and log them off. Then I log in another “shift” of accounts and put them on farm (to avoid being banned due to botting 24/7). It takes… say, 3-5 hours.
– I go to… well, have some real life. During that time I might receive notifications from shops that there are people who want to buy my game currency, so I get back to comp, log in some char (if needed) and transfer game money; but generally I spend my time outside.
– I come back at evening and service the second “shift” of accounts, much the same way I did it for the first one at morning. I log in back the first “shift”, put it on bot farm and go to sleep.What “every 30-60 minutes” you are talking about? :))
The most active EU servers are most likely Ragnarok and Shiva.
Nice to hear that, thanks!
Yes. The only profitable way of making gil with shards is, as was mentioned before, by creating armies of accounts with stolen credit cards, fraud, etc. and mass-farming them with about 100 characters simultaneously.
Hmmm why “credit cards and fraud”? Why can’t I pay via e-money, creating a separate wallet for each account, so it would look like many legit players for GMs?
Yep. Miqo team also collected data and wrote several parts of that dissertation.
Great! Thanks bunch 🙂
I think at the end of the day, you’re taking what you want and discarding the bits of info that doesn’t conform with your ideal situation.
There is just too much info which is not “anchored” to any personal experiences or memories… so I simply fail to keep all of it in my head at the same time.
A. That is for one item type. If you’re as savvy as you presume you are, you would be selling all variety of crystals and shards.
Actually, in the ideal game world I would farm the same place using the same script for days and months (assuming that market consumes everything I bring, and asks for more). This means I need next to no attention to my farm: no need to move my toons from one place to another, no need to switch bot profiles, etc. Less time spent on manual micromanagement = more time for rl, you know.
Though, most probably ideal games (WoW and EVE) are closed for me (too low profit, too many bans), and looks like there are no other games as ideal… So oh well – guess I’ll HAVE to go for “variety” and “blending into majority”, as you say.
Regardless, good luck. I personally don’t think this is the game you’re looking for.
Me neither. The problem is, though, that other games are even worse… I.e. either there is low risk of bans, but botting nets too damn small profit per hour (WoW brings about $0.06 – i.e. 6 cent – per hour, you know? just because everyone and their grandma have their own bots), or there are decent profits (EVE still brings about half a dollar hourly), but GMs ban botters like hell 🙁
Edit: Your best bet – start a trial account. Start a subscription to Miqo. … Poke around with your own eyes.
Will do. Thanks again!
This might be where so far we failed to explain how exactly FFXIV works.
Maybe… as Luluna says, maybe I just need to poke myself to understand it, hehe. Right now the common sense tells me that generally there are 3 kinds of stuff in any game:
1) stuff which is useful for newbies/lowbies only: no sane player or bot farms it, indeed;
2) stuff which is useful in the endgame, and comes from fun activities (questing, raiding, crafting and so forth): lots of legit players do it just because it’s actually fun, so market is flooded with this kind of stuff, and there is [next to] no point (or even impossible) to farm it using bot;
3) stuff which is useful in the endgame, and comes from boring grinding: [next to] no sane legit players want to do it for more than a hour, so that’s where bot literally shines – people pay to botters just to obtain this stuff so they do not have to grind themselves.Now you tell me that everything is actually fun in FFXIV, gathering included + simple grinding brings no useful stuff at all! This makes me sit down and ponder: why the heck would you need bot, then? %) Players should probably cover all demand with their legit supply, just gathering for fun!
No one explained it I think already, but à la FFVII, you need to meld materia into each piece of gear you have in order to reach the stats thresholds allowing you to craft end-game recipes, and allowing you (well, allowing Miqobot) to craft High Quality items, and to gather end-game mats.
Those materia are a huge part of the market itself, especially for Gatherers and Crafters, their price sky rocket often, and you need tons of them because of one thing that rules in FFXIV: RNG.You need to meld 4 to 5 materia per piece of gear, the 1st and sometimes second one have 100% rate of success, then it falls from ~17% to ~7% rate of success.
This means you’ll blow hundreds of pricey materia, millions of gils if you didn’t stock enough or start with nothing.Well… it’s not like I’ve never heard about something alike before. Take Lineage 2 or Black Desert Online: enchants work much like this. Though, why would a botting toon in L2 need, say, weapon +16? Heck, +5 is more than enough (or even +4)! There is just no much point to invest in your RMT toon, because sooner or later it gets banned anyway – even if bot is not discoverable, finally they ban you just for RMT. And I sincerely hope it works like this in FFXIV, too… as I don’t feel like investing months into account doomed to ban.
FFXIV is a very popular game, full of players, healthy, very greedy, well alive, and bringing a mountain of cash to Square Enix, FFXI used to be the game that brought them the most money, FFXIV exploded those records.
Just too bad these players are split into THAT small realms 🙁 I’d find a way to cover demand of thousands of players with a single bot, but what can I do if most of these players are in other worlds?…
and this means lots of real human hours, not bot hours.
Too bad 🙁 If I wanted to do something manually (as opposed to automating it with bots), I’d accept a RL job, hehe…
8M/week average, can be 3M/week for month, and 50M/week for specific content).
Now that’s really not much. I mean, in terms of RMT! so no offense to you personally. Even if we assume that 1mil = $1 (for simplicity), $32 per month is nothing – even crap WoW bot brings some $43 monthly (per window). I really really hope that a professional botter should make way more – otherwise this is really not the game I’m looking for.
6 month hole with still mini patches (where we are now)
FFXIV 5.0: July 2019
Did I get that right: so right now prices are in the deep @$$ because of this “hole” and because of major patch incoming, but as soon as it comes out, prices (and thus profits) rocket-jump for months?
First; you need to buy the game and do your own research. I understand that you are asking questions to gauge your possible interest, but the logic you are applying to analyse the responses is futile as you don’t have the base knowledge to understand the answers.
You are right; but still, I understood enough to at least give this game a shot, hehe. I guess now I try it myself and continue learning from my own experiences…
Second; and it’s funny that no one has actually said it, Gil is rather unnecessary in this game. I know it may seem absurd, but the average player can get everything they want or a similar substitute by waiting.
This is true for nearly every game; though, my targeted audience is far from an average player 😉 It’s more about rich arrogant pricks who do not want to learn the game, do not want to create something by themselves (let alone to wait) – they just want PayToWin button, hehehe… which I can gladly offer!
to effectively sell items and make Gil, you will need to spend at least an hour or 2 per day deciding what to sell. Granted this will get easier over time, but you will still need to do research and recheck your prices hourly to be effective.
Are you sure? In most cases there are things which are always needed – like infusions of strength mentioned above. So basically the only thing I need is to find such areas, corner prices there (i.e. make it low enough so nobody would undercut me) and then farm materials and craft these items until next addon comes, no?
Besides, I’d still want to hear some answer to one of the most important questions: can Miqobot effectively farm materials like this (i.e. using gathering prof, rotating skills etc)?
(i) Crafters and Gatherers are usually the only people that reliably purchase Ingots, Cloths, Reagents, and Leather (items made from raw materials and used for final crafts). This usually happens because the price of the Raw Materials is usually higher than the materials they make.
Hmmmm… how so? Look above (the “evergleam ore at 3300 gil per item / evergleam ingots at 84.000 gil per item” example)!
Or maybe I miss some point again %) oh well
(iii) Good Luck and I hope your venture (lol “Retainer Ventures”, FFXIV JOKE) is successful.
Thanks! I’ll certainly need it, hehe…
I don’t know of any exact numbers, but you can have a guesstimate of which ones are most popular based on how SE classifies them:
No congested EU servers 🙁 life is pain… but thanks anyway!
The numbers I edited out ranged from hundreds to thousands.
So that’s about 100k gil per day? Not that much… but maybe that’s because of low population of your server, dunno.
The next expansion is due in a couple months.
So right now it is neither best time to farm/sell, nor worst, it seems… while “10-50 mil/day” scenario was probably assuming the best days (i.e. right after new addon was released).
That is about 9000 characters per world. 9000. Lets be generous and assume that there are 11,000 active characters who simply haven’t completed the MSQ upto the required point to be tracked. I made this number up, but it is more than double of the base number. Thats 20,000 active players.
Geez… I should have started with this question. I wonder why your worlds are that small? Heck, WoW servers easily hold 150-350k players per server; EVE Online just does not have any realms – all players (some 400k, 40k of them active at the same time) are in the same realm. Now I’m not surprised anymore that your market is sooo volatile 🙁
Now probably one of the most important questions pops up: is there a way to check official info – number of players per world (to choose really populated one)?
Shards/crystals are also the only item I know that is not limited to the 99 stack. You can list up to 9,999, which makes it a highly attractive item to see as a botter.
Heh, well – I didn’t know that, indeed; so no wonders my assumptions were incorrect %)
But I’ll attach a mostly redacted screen shot of sales as an example. On the 28th, stacks sold for 200 gil a piece. On the 29th, there is no activity. On the 30th, there is very little market activity. Value drops below 100 gil a piece. On the 31st, activity explodes. No sales made as of today. There are periods in time when very very little sell – because in reality, there are not that many active players – and certainly not those who craft.
Too bad you edited away quantity of sales 🙁 Was that hundreds per day? thousands?
Oh, and there is also a related question: how much time have passed since the last addon / left until the next one? Maybe such poor market activity and volatile market has something to do with game world being in dormant state while waiting for the next addon?
Each market listing is limited to a max of 99 at a time unfortunately. Really downs the mass mat market.
Geeeez… that’s 8 retainers x 20 listings x 99 per listing = about 16,000 items to sell daily MAX? So if one aims for at least 16 mil gil daily, (s)he should just dump any item of value less than 1000 gil into trash can / sell to NPC vendor? Now that’s really fun news… GMs are really killing free market in their game. Thanks bunch for info, too!
Evergleam ore is currently listed at 3300 gil per item on my server. It is one of the highest level items you can gather with a max level gatherer. You can only gather about 12 per hour, because it is only collectable from a timed gathering node that can only be gathered once, before it disappears.
Evergleam ingots however are listed at 84.000 gil per item. You only need 4 evergleam ore, 1 palladium nugget (easy to get) and 2 Gyr Abanian Carbon rods (buyable via a farmable content-currency).So basically any crafter who is able to smelt ingots should come to marker, buy ALL ore, turn it into ingots, put ingots back to market and soon have 84000*0.9 (tax) – 4*3300 = 62400 gil of profit per ingot. So THE question pops up insta: why does nobody do that?? Is it that hard to smelt? Does it require lots of time? Maybe the rest components are not really that easy to get? I mean, heck, there has to be some logical reason 🙂 Otherwise in any sane game either ingot price should drop down to 18-20k or so, or ore price should grow up to 15-18k per item!
Grade 3 Infusions of intelligence are crafted from 2 Chickweed and a few other mats, that are all on timed-nodes. They sell at about 7000 gil per item on my server.
However, from only one stack of 99 Chickweed a player can craft 150 grade 3 infusions, which will most likely last until the end of the expansion for him, so the demand for that is rather little.
This part is quite logical, actually. Low demand for an item = everyone has as much as they need (or can craft it themselves + they have as much mats as they need for craft) = real price of these infusions are about 1000 gil per item. Note: “real price” = “you can sell lots and lots of items at this price, and people will keep buying anyway”.
So, I think 7000 per infusion is not about crafting being important 🙂 it’s about seeking for a stupido who actually pays that high price… Maybe the previous example of 84k gil per ingot falls into this category as well?
It’s a 5-10x difference in profit you can make with crafted items.
Can you sell these ingots at this price in bulk? Say, 100 ingots per day? 200? 300? Or, as soon as you put 300 ingots on market, people start undercutting until price drops down to the logical level of 20k per ingot? hehe
Yes. But the problem, we’re talking about is, that it is highly inconsistent. Of course, if you’re going by the logic “any money per hour” you don’t have a problem. But depending on several factors it can be anywhere between 0.05-0.7$ per hour.
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If you go by your farming mindset, after a month you will sit on a mountain of items, worth like 250 million gil, but you can only put so many on the market board and it would take about a year or so until you can sell all of them – and then there is the other problem, that after 3 months all your items become almost worthless, because SE releases a big content patch every 3 months that releases new recipes, etc. which extremely devalues all your items.From what I see, this is the only factor that matters… Basically, this means you can sell items of new content right after release at very high price, and then prices go down. I.e. you do not “sit on a mountain of items, worth like 250 million gil” – this mountain of items actually worth 10x less or so. I mean, if you can’t sell items at this value, then these items just aren’t worth it…
So, does it mean you can earn some 1 mil/hour right after content patch comes out, but just some 50k/hour right before the next patch?
It’s slower than you think. Gathering in Final Fantasy XIV is not like gathering in all other MMO’s, where you simply walk up to a node and collect the item. In FFXIV even the fucking gatherers have skill rotations to gather materials effectively.
Both crafters and gatherers in FFXIV are actually full classes with gear, skills, etc. and I’d say, they’re even much, much more complex than most combat classes.
Just to show you, what I mean: There is an over 300 pages long dissertation on gathering and crafting made by the FFXIV community on google docs:What’s way more important than dissertation: does Miqobot support all this stuff (skill rotations, random buff checking/reacting accordingly, etc)?
People usually undercut you by only 1 gil, but sometimes there are a few morons who give even less crap about it and undercut you by 30% of the full price. And then there are still more players who keep undercutting that person.
Ooh, they are NOT morons 🙂 they are way more clever than you think!
Look, what’s the point of undercutting by 1 gil? You have to sit at the market and check, and undercut, and check, and undercut, and check, and undercut again – until you sell everything or until you go dizzy. What’s the point to spend 3 hours gathering AND then 3 more hours at the market, undercutting? I’d rather undercut by 30%, then go to farm for 3 more hours, and put it at 70% again: this way I earn 70% * 6 = 420% compared to your 100% * 3 = 300%. Someone undercuts me? Fine: I let him sell his stuff at 70% minus 1 gil, then sell mine at 70%. He sells his loot, but I fail to sell mine? Then next day I undercut by 40% and sell at 60%… as simple as that. See, it’s the only viable option in a world full of inflation (such as FFXIV or WoW). If you fail to sell today at 70% of high price, tomorrow you might be selling at 100% of low price… which is lower than 70% of high.
Another data-example:
Grade 3 Infusions of strength are one of the most highly demanded items in the game. They’re consumables for a short strength buff, which is highly demanded by the raiding community.
On release of the patch where these infusions became craftable, some of them sold for up to 300.000 gil per piece.
2 weeks ago the price was at 22.000 gil per infusion. Last week it was at 18.000 gil per infusion.
Right now it sank down to a measily 10.000 gil per infusion and the price is still falling. People absolutely do not care. And I predict, that by the end of the expansion, the price fell down to about 3.000 gil per infusion.Now I wonder if component prices (needed to craft these infusions) were going the same way or no? Maybe it wasn’t about low “supply” of crafters, but rather low supply of ingridients?
I think it is 10%.
Tad worse, but not as bad as in BDO, hehe… You should play EVE some day 🙂 and enjoy BASE tax of 1%, which is reduced with skill down to 0.5%!
Well, if Carl hasn’t answered your questions, I don’t know, who else could.
Actually, you guys have answered LOTS of my questions (and I’m certainly grateful to you); just… you know the way it goes: answers produce more questions. The most important question, IMHO, is related to gathering-crafting balance. Let me bring an example from EVE Online…
Say, there is demand for 1000 guns on market, which cost a billion isk (EVE currency) together. Production requires 4 stages:
1) Raw materials (minerals) are needed. Mining is an extremely boring and low profit activity (which is why people often mine with bots), but minerals cost is about 70% of total final product cost. I.e. miner is one who receives 700 mil profit by selling his haul to manufacturers; though, it takes him some 20 hours of playtime to produce that much.
2) Newbie crafter buys minerals and crafts basic components (say, some screws, plates and alike simple details). It requires next to no skills (Industry I is enough); it takes some half a hour to buy minerals, transfer them to manufacturing plant, install production, go offline and wait (wait time not included), then bring products back to trade station and sell them for, say, 750mil, having 50 mil of profit.
3) Average crafter comes and does almost the same, just he buys basic components and crafts more complicated parts like circuitry and mechanic blocks. This activity requires more skill training (say, Industry V) and lets him sell him product at 850 mil, having 100 mil of profit per half a hour.
4) Finally, professional manufacturer buys it and produces actual guns. It requires crapload of skills (say, Industry V + Science V + Electronics V + Engineering V), but then again he receices 150 mil of profit per the same time.Now take into account that average profit of an experienced pilot (mission runner, pirate hunter, anomaly scanner and so forth) usually stays at 100 mil/hour level (well, real numbers might be outdated as I haven’t played for about 3.5 years, but you get the point). So, basically, almost ANY crafting brings more profit per given time than any grinding, but… you just can’t do it 24/7! Not enough demand, not enough manufacturing plants, not enough everything… oh, and undercuts, too. This is why it goes the way it goes: real players “craft” for some 1-2 hours a day, having great profit per hour (but not that great total income per RL day, because they mostly wait offline / participate in other activities); bots grind, having rather low per-hour profit, but then again they can do it 24/7 (rotating accounts). It is logical and it is even fair, IMHO.
Of course, there are greedy (/stupid) players who follow [newbie] rule: “I should do the whole chain all by myself, to never buy anything!” They think they maximize their profits this way, lol. In reality, though, they just waste playtime doing things far below their potential level. I mean, for real, why would sane experienced crafter mine for 35 mil/hour if he can craft for 300 mil/hour?? The “minerals did not cost me anything because I’ve mined them myself” argument is but utter bulls**t, because they goddamn had cost measured in RL HOURS!
Soo… now I want to ask: can somebody tell me why shouldn’t this logic be applied to any game which has free market and [more or less] low market transaction tax?
First, there is a limit to how much you can sell. In this game, you sell via retainers. Each retainer can have 20 listings for sale. I believe you can have up to 8-9 retainers, but any after the first two cost real money.
Yea, sounds logical. Still, is it possible to perform bulk sales here in FFXIV? Say, can I gather some 100,000 fire shards and put them on market as a single listing?
On a high demand day, a single fire shard might sell for 300 gil. On a low demand day with people aggressively undercutting, it might drop to 30 gil each. Once it drops that low, it would take at least a week to recover assuming people simply stopped listing.
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In the example I gave with the shards, once I enter the market, it only takes a day or two for the value to tank so much that it is no longer worth my time.Then this is just a wrong target item in terms of professional grind 🙂 I mean, heck, there is about million (?) of players in this game. How can single player (you) enter the market and corner price of some item? It has to be a really really low-demand item, I’d say.
In order to make good gil – you’ll need to reliably identify items of high demand and low supply – and hope another botter does not start an undercutting war.
I’d say “high demand” is enough… in case of populated server, I mean. Heck, I was farming the same single item in EVE with 16 accounts, 12 hours a day each (basically, 8 windows 24/7), for weeks if not months… until finally its original price dropped by 20% or so. Then usually banwave comes, I lose my farm, it takes me some 3-4 weeks to restore it; during that time prices jump back to original state, and cycle repeats from begin. That’s what I call “an item of high demand, a REAL grinder’s target item” 🙂
Third – kind of trivial, but worthy of note. You need to progress through the game to certain points in order to have full access to items you can gather.
It was noted above already, IIRC… what’s the problem with it? I mean, if this game holds an absolute record of 24 hours to complete main plotline, then probably I’ll manage it in some 36 hours with every new account once I learn the game. That’s some… 3 days rl? Per account? Can’t say I’m scared 🙂 And yes, I do not have any rl job (since 2006th or so).
I went through 3 different bots, and I only bot to get rid of the awful grinds that plague the game literally everywhere.
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The dev(s) of this bot are really fair, as in, they don’t create tools to cheat, but rather to remove from the player the burden of the grindsThis is the whole point of any bot, actually: do something boring and tedious; something no player would ever be able to do for hours, because he just falls asleep from boredom. Bot, on the other hand, never gets tired, so this is where botter pops up: he lets other players have certain resources which require grind… in exchange for game currency (and thus real money). No more, no less – no cheats, no scams, just plain and simple repeating certain actions for hours, days and months.
So, I take it as there ARE some places/materials to grind for a decent profit, actually?
A genuine players, botting smartly, meaning monitoring the bot at all time while doing something else, working or playing another game, ready to intervene immediately when the situation requires, won’t get banned,
Well, this is the way I bot in any games, exactly. I might sleep near my working “farm”, but I’m always ready to get up in case some instance of the bot rings some kind of alarm.
This game was made so that it doesn’t create a lot of gils, there’s is plenty of gils sink everywhere to avoid inflation, and devs monitors carefully the amount of total gils in circulation to constantly adapt the gils created.
I do not aim for farming gil directly. Actually, it does not make any difference for me: if I look for a way to make killed mobs drop game currency directly, or rather for a way to make them drop some resources/materials and sell them on market once a day to receive game currency. In the end it boils down to the same thing: money received per hour, this way or that…
I don’t know if your goal is to sell them your gils, or if you want to sell yours directly to players, but if you want to sell to RMT, don’t count on 1.5$/M, divide that
No prob for me. As long as I farm (this way or that, once again, via grinding or via crafting – I use general meaning of “farm” here) about million gil per hour, I can sell it for $1 or even $0.5 each. That’s still quite decent profit, by my standards (assuming I can do it in many game windows at the same time).
This bot isn’t made (yet) to do what the RMT bot does, running MSQ with several char on its own to slowly collect very small amount of gils.
MSQ?
So if you want to win your gils from other players, rather than from NPC (MSQ, daily leves, etc.), crafting is the way to go, but you’ll need all your crafters at max level, and all your gatherers at max level,
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Since both regular players using macros, and this bot users are widespread, the competition between crafters and gatherers never been that high.
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4. The competition being high, and the way the market board works, lead to prices getting constantly undercut, so much, that all prices are very low, there’s more supply than demand. You make gils, but less than it used to be, 3-5 times less.
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So income from crafting fluctuates a lot( right now we’re in the empty 5 month period before an expansion where the opportunities to make gils are the lowest), the competition is high, the undercutting is a plague pulling prices so low because to many casual players can craft end-game stuff now, and they just want small and fast profit.After reading this I start to wonder… either I miss your point, or you miss mine. Look, there is situation where lots of players can take simple materials (which come from gatherers, right?) and convert them into useful items. It takes almost no time (or?); actually, it just takes leveling up some chars and training crafting skills/job. Lots of players do it, just because it’s FUN, right? This is why we get lots of competition, and price undercuts.
Though, gathering is just… running in circles and, well, gathering basic materials. It is NO FUN; I bet there are not that many players who would do it for hours on daily basis. So, why would I need to craft at all? Isn’t it more logical to make your botting toons to just run around and gather, then sell mats to crafters? There should not be much undercut in prices of simple mats, just because there should be not that many players who spend their time doing something that is not fun.
Well, of course this logic comes from other games… maybe it does not work in FFXIV, hehe.
7. There’s an ingame tax on everything you sell, it’s yet again another way to remove gils from the game
How high it is? Some 5%? That would be acceptable.
So in order to massively craft the new gear or housing items of a new patch, you need 3 char with all crafters geared and melded, and you might want to have them on different accounts, as you can’t easily transfer items between the same char of one service account, because you can’t make them friends, and you can’t log with them at the same time, so you’ll need to create a Free Company (equivalent to a guild) to use its chest to transfer items. Really unpractical when used constantly for that purpose.
This should not be too hard to handle… I did something alike in EVE. As long as I don’t get any bans, I can set up lots of accounts dedicated to certain specializations.
But since you talked about dedicating quite some time into this, there’s other ways to directly make real money.
Last expansion they started to release a new level of raid difficulty, Ultimate, and so far only 0.03% of players managed to win those 2 Ultimate fights, making their loot the most wanted weapons and titles.I guess I’ve seen something alike already… selling arena teams/arena ratings in WoW. Yes I know it brings lots of profit, but this is not a thing I am looking for. I do not want to play manually 🙂 I want my hardware and software to “play” for me.
Oh, and thank you, too – it was quite useful!
2)10-50m gil a day is a lot of work to maintain and a shitton of market play.
Do you mean that this work can’t be automated with Miqobot? Even if I create my own scripts/setups/whatever? Or it’s not possible to create such scripts at all (say, not enough tools to read game data, too simple scripting language and so on)?
If you really get into the game in a hardcore way and know exactly, when to sell what you could even make 10-50 million per day, if the stars align perfectly. However this takes a giant amount of effort and lots of dedication.
This is bot forum we are talking at, right? 😉 I don’t quite get it: why would you need “dedication” if you can simply set up bot and leave it to craft for the whole day, then come and put crafted items on market? Maybe you mean that I’ll have to reduce prices every now and then, to outbid other sellers? Well, according to my experience from other games, if there is highest buy order for some items at, say, 800 of some “coins”, and lowest sell order at 1000, I can safely put my crafted/farmed bundle at 900, and almost nobody would outbid it (most players would rather wait until I sell mine at 900, so they can sell at 1000+, without losing 100 coins per every item). In the worst case I can just dump my production into buy orders… well, I hope there IS such thing as “buy orders” in FF14?
It certainly depends. Crafting and gathering is the only go-to way to make gil efficiently – mostly only at the endgame-level – and you make gil only via the marketboard, by selling items to other players.
Depending on how hard you watch/play the market board (there are currently no monitoring tools for this, so you have to check your items manually on an hourly basis) you can make somewhere between 1-20 million gil per day if you do it casually and mostly only if you’re lucky, since it all depends on player demand.
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And lastly, another note: Current RMT prices however are only around 1.5$ per million gil, so I doubt RMT will be a lucrative business for a single person.Ughm… so you say a single thoroughly played account brings you (10+50)/2 * $1.5 = $45 per day, or $1350 monthly, and on top of that this bot allows you to run several instances of the game on the same comp, which automagically results in some $5000+ monthly, and you “doubt that this will be a lucrative business”? 😉 Well, either there is too much optimism in your estimations, or you’ve never heard about countries where even $1000 per month of real full-time job (5/2, often 9-10 hours per day) is considered very, VERY decent salary! hehe
There are 8 different crafting jobs which you have to level all to max level (70), since every crafter depends on materials other crafting jobs can craft and 3 gathering jobs, which you ideally also need to level to max level, to gather the crafting materials.
Hmm… I don’t get it again: why would I want ALL jobs maxed? Every job takes some time, right? Say, a perfectly trained job X nets some 1 mil gil per hour, while alike job Y brings 1.2 mil. Why would I even train skill X when I can simply buy materials produced by job X from market, spending my time on a more profitable job?
Maybe there is just too high transaction tax (like in BDO, where even premium accounts lose 18% per every deal due to taxes), which makes buying resources for crafting from market quite pointless?
Leveling a crafter via grinding and crafting collectibles takes severely longer. Maybe a few days.
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The current speed running world record for completing it is 24 hours and 45 minutes and this was under ideal conditions (no queue times, etc.).Good news, thank you 🙂 In WoW it took me 48-49 hours playtime to get a toon at botable level (plus some 4-5 hours per every gathering skill), but that’s not much, actually. Heck, in EVE Online it required 2 weeks of skill training (i.e. logging a character once a day to buy skill books and fill skill queue) and then about 100 hours of botting (to earn enough credits for a decent bot ship) before it started to produce any extras for sale! Now keep in mind that it was quite possible that you simply get banned even before this account brings any profit, and you realize that FF14 looks like a botter heaven… Now I just hope that you really know what are you speaking about, hehe (ESPECIALLY in the part about bans).
Oh you can bet, that for sure there are some RMT botters that use Miqobot, but most of them absolutely do not bother talking on the forums, since most likely 95%+ here are actually geniune players using Miqobot for easing the grind within the game.
Hmm, I wonder if I should shut up too? 8) Well, I will, I promise – I just need a few basic info like this, and then I can learn by myself silently, hehehe.
1) Activity type does not matter 🙂 I can set up a bot to kill mobs, or to complete quests, or to craft things, and so on – as long as it brings lots of game money. As far as I can see, Miqobot supports crafting; now you say crafting brings lots of gil. So the next logical question pops up: how much gil do you gain per hour of crafting, using decent character controlled by Miqobot? Oh, and I hope it does not require months of exping/leveling to create a “single high level crafter”…
2) I know Miqobot does not use any speed-teleport-whatever hacks which are quite easy to catch and ban (no decent bot does that, actually: bots intended for long-time runs do their best to “emulate” real human players who use just a simple unmodified game client, and thus blend into the crowd of players). Still, everyone gets banned – due to player reports, due to lots of produced goodies… due to RMT, at long last. This is why I want some professional botter (i.e. one having farm of many windows running 24/7, rotating accounts) commenting this topic, actually. It’s hard to believe that there is a working and SUPPORTED bot which is not used by RMT botters!
