61 Dungeon Support

Forum Forums Discussion 61 Dungeon Support

This topic contains 20 replies, has 17 voices, and was last updated by SirVG SirVG 2 weeks, 5 days ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 21 total)
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  • #25104

    Cham
    Participant
    6+

    Figured I would go ahead and create this. This would be so the tank mount 2nd tier achievement could be done a bit easier. Not sure how much interest is out there. If this is something up your alley drop some feedback! Lets hear it Miqo community.

    #25105
    Miqobot
    Miqobot
    Keymaster
    1+

    Very well, it is time for another community voting thread. Let us discuss further development plans.
    In order to keep everyone on the same page, we would like to reiterate main facts for clarity.

    • We can not implement all new features at once, therefore we implement them one by one.
    • At the moment we are preparing a level 80 Trust Dungeon for release. Gathering updates are planned next and there has also been a lot of requests regarding new scenario functions. Some of these improvements have been postponed for more than a year, and there are users who get very frustrated over this fact.

    You can find additional information here: Upcoming Features

    • The standard development cycle is 4-8 weeks.
    • In addtion, each game patch downgrades existing features and extends the workload by 1-3 weeks.
      For example, the arrival of Patch 5.4 will introduce 1 week of complete Miqobot downtime, followed by approximately 2 weeks of reimplementing broken features.

    When you vote in favor of a level 61 dungeon (or any other feature), please let us know your preferable location on the roadmap. We have to understand the demand in order to adjust the development plans accordingly.
    Thank you for your feedback very much.

    #25106
    malarkey
    malarkey
    Participant
    0

    TLDR; 1) QOL, 2) scenario engine updates, 3) gathering updates, 4) 80 trust support, 5) 61+ tank achievement support

    =====

    Since it doesn’t need to be synced, it would be easier to make a scenario for this unsynced than it would be for something synced on your own. Squadron support for Bitter Memory farm comes to mind.

    Having a level 80 trust support coming out near 5.4 release seems like a waste of time/opportunity to me. The phantasmagorias people are wanting this support to farm for in the first place will be obsolete soon enough. In my opinion, if this is something people are wanting, it should be made sooner.

    Given how long the development cycle is for a fully fleshed out support feature like this, including the Garuda Ex unsynced, and that it is something that once you have it you will never need the feature again, I would prefer updates to Miqo that are applicable to a wider audience, could get more use, and are more permanent to the lifespan of Miqo.

    From memory, some of the more common threads I see posted are regarding QOL features; the ability to pause a scenario, and updating combat routines. I see people wanting support for the 60 squadrons a bit as well, but I believe it is only more common recently because of the current relics. People that are wanting it purely for leveling seem to not know they can just run Somh Al until 71 with no issues and that Miqo has already made posts regarding squadron support at that level saying that it is much less efficient for time and experience.

    Probably my most desired feature would be being able to trigger the combat algorithms in a scenario so I could make my own dungeon runs, like Bitter Memory farms. Given how it could be abused for the dangerous and visible overworld I understand this will likely never be implemented.

    Lastly, as for which instance. I just ran The Sirensong Sea on a 79 paladin in 385 crafted gear. Went just fine. No tank busters so the only thing to worry about is positioning. Only the last boss might be tricky with said movement because of her mechanics. Took about 32 minutes with one disconnect and a queue to log back in. Counted for Tank you, Paladin III.

    #25107
    Miqobot
    Miqobot
    Keymaster
    2+

    Having a level 80 trust support coming out near 5.4 release seems like a waste of time/opportunity to me. The phantasmagorias people are wanting this support to farm for in the first place will be obsolete soon enough. In my opinion, if this is something people are wanting, it should be made sooner.

    Perhaps this point requires clarification as well.
    Implementation of level 80 Trust Dungeon is nearing its completion. This is not the kind of work we can undo and replace with another feature. But we appreciate the constructive feedback.

    #25115

    johnb
    Participant
    1+

    1) Gathering Improvements/Updates
    2) QOL
    3) Scenario Engine Updates
    4) Trusts
    5) ETC

    Gathering is my main use case and I’ve wanted the QOL updates for a while now.

    #25116

    edgedy
    Participant
    3+

    Allegory mats will be essential to the new crafted gear. So I 100% disagree with malarkey’s malarkey.

    Having an 80 farm is an excellent idea. Thank you Miqobot team 🙂

    #25120
    malarkey
    malarkey
    Participant
    0

    Perhaps this point requires clarification as well.
    Implementation of level 80 Trust Dungeon is nearing its completion. This is not the kind of work we can undo and replace with another feature. But we appreciate the constructive feedback.

    Allegory mats will be essential to the new crafted gear. So I 100% disagree with malarkey’s malarkey.
    Having an 80 farm is an excellent idea. Thank you Miqobot team 🙂

    Perhaps I need clarification as well. r/unpopularopinion

    I’m not saying a level 80 trust support shouldn’t be done. I’m saying if it is something people are wanting it should be made sooner in the expansion to get more use out of it as a feature. The Miqo team has already been working on 80 trust support for a while now, and I’m not saying it should be scrapped just because it’s nearing 5.4 release.

    In my opinion, if this is something people are wanting, it should be made sooner.

    In the long term, when the next expansion is released there will be new tomestones, therefore decreasing the efficacy of this as a feature. Yes, you can still use it to level your combat jobs from 80 to 81, but you can also continue running Holminster Switch or Qitana Ravel until 81+ as well. Or farm minions/cards depending on which dungeon they’re working on.

    I’m just trying to keep in mind the long-long term health of Miqo. In my opinion, more permanent features that can get more wide-spread use and aren’t on an efficacy time crunch are better for the whole. The more flexible the program the easier it will be for new people to start using Miqo and the easier it will be to retain customers, new and old alike. Given that the Miqo team themselves have said at one point there are ~100+ requested QOL features, that it’s nearing the end of the expansion, and that they’re already almost finished with the 80 trust support, that is why I put my word forward for QOL over the rest.

    Proactive vs reactive. Planning ahead, the Miqo team obviously cannot work on 6.0 features yet as we have no information for them and the new code will break it anyway. When 6.0 releases everything will be put on hold just to get base Miqo running again. If again, people are wanting a trust equivalent for the max level dungeons for tomestone farming then that likely should be the next major feature planned for 6.x after “launch repair” and crafting/gathering updates are completed, provided nothing crazy happens. The sooner max level trust support for tomestone farming can be finished the more useful it is.

    To the original topic, 61+ support for tank achievement, hell even 60 for Bitter Memory farm, would be nice to have. However, it is cosmetic and less essential and practically useful than a level 80 trust support. I say after 80 trust is completed, work on some of the more useful QOL requests, then if nothing else, throw some work in a 61+ tank run support. It is not a feature I don’t want, but I believe others should take priority.

    #25121
    zola2
    zola2
    Participant
    0

    +1

    #25123
    Arc
    Arc
    Moderator
    1+

    Also want to add my 5cts to a quote up there:

    Having a level 80 trust support coming out near 5.4 release seems like a waste of time/opportunity to me. The phantasmagorias people are wanting this support to farm for in the first place will be obsolete soon enough.

    I’m not sure if you have a misconception, on how patch 5.4 will change dungeon rewards or not.
    Currently the level 80 Trust Dungeons reward Allagan Tomestones of Phantasmagoria and Allagan Tomestones of Allegory. When the patch launches, Allagan Tomestones of Phantasmagoria are going to be completely removed from all dungeon rewards and you cannot earn them anymore. Instead all level 80 Dungeons will reward Allagan Tomestones of Allegory and the new Allagan Tomestones of Revelation.

    https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/topics/detail/1026d2c28a0a84f06e185191c452922dbcb748dc

    Essentially, that “old” level 80 Dungeon Miqobot will be able to farm with Trusts will net you both the current new and the upcoming new tomestones, making it really worthwhile, since you can gear every job to almost maximum iLvl without having to manually run countless dungeons, before the next expansion launches. This gear will last every job until they’re around level 86, before it has to be exchanged, and on top of it, you will be able to buy expensive materials with the Allagan Tomestones of Allegory, which you can sell for a really good profit on the MB.

    So all in all I think it is still a good feature, even though it is just about to come out.

    In the long term, when the next expansion is released there will be new tomestones, therefore decreasing the efficacy of this as a feature.

    Yes, there will be new tomestones, but in return, these level 80 dungeon will then reward Allagan Tomestones of Poetics, which there is currently no way of farming via Miqobot. So in the long run this feature will not become worth less, but worth something else.

    If again, people are wanting a trust equivalent for the max level dungeons for tomestone farming then that likely should be the next major feature planned for 6.x after “launch repair” and crafting/gathering updates are completed, provided nothing crazy happens. The sooner max level trust support for tomestone farming can be finished the more useful it is.

    Technically you are right with your statement, however there is a major problem, that makes setting a max level dungeon as first target feature impossible:
    The Miqobot staff has to level every job to max level themselves to calculate, implement and playtest max level support, before they can work on a max level dungeon. The Miqobot devs are extremely dedicated to keep this bot running and actually neglect playing the game themselves to a severe degree, so they can repair all the existing features asap.

    #25129

    Uxhak
    Participant
    0

    Ok so We know that 5.4 will change gathering and crafting. I dont see a reason to do gathering or crafting updates now while the system works already and pretty well. 5.4 will probably break gathering and crafting so having those updates moved up is pointless to discuss until after the patch.

    If lv80 trust support is almost done that should remain the priority as it will have the lease amount of changes to fix come 5.4. Also the need for it still remains valid. The tomestone reward for completion will be changed from allegory and phanta to allegory and the new tomestone as they always do. And I say farming allegory will be very important for new crafts.

    After this is implemented I think fixing and updating the gathering and crafting system to follow the new patch changes will be best. Miqobot staff cnd add any new updates and fix the old stuff all at once.

    After that i dont really have an opinion on what should be a priority. I would enjoy QoL scenario updates but they aren’t urgent in any way. a lv61 unscyned dungeon/trial support for tank mount farming isn’t all that important to me either as the mounts are pretty ugly and not a priority for me. Not saying i wouldn’t use it if it was implemented.

    I would like FATE farming to be automated for all maps. Will make future yokai events easier and make getting relic weapons easier. but i don’t have an opinion on its priority for implementation

    #25133
    Arc
    Arc
    Moderator
    0

    Ok so We know that 5.4 will change gathering and crafting. I dont see a reason to do gathering or crafting updates now while the system works already and pretty well. 5.4 will probably break gathering and crafting so having those updates moved up is pointless to discuss until after the patch.

    5.4 will not change crafting. It will only slightly adjust a few actions’ potencies and remove certain unused skills, plus add another new condition for expert recipes. Since any patch breaks all Miqobot features, Miqobot will have to repair them either way, and removing skills from the crafting solver algorithm is no problem at all. Changing a couple of numbers might be a bit of an issue, but not a large one. The biggest issue will be the new condition on new crafting recipes, but that will be solved eventually as well.

    The changes to gathering are mainly on the UI side. Not the actual implementation of how gathering works, so that won’t be a major problem either. If I had to guess, based on what was shown during the Live Letter, I’d say gathering won’t work properly for a week at most, and will work perfectly within a month or so, worst case scenario.

    After this is implemented I think fixing and updating the gathering and crafting system to follow the new patch changes will be best. Miqobot staff cnd add any new updates and fix the old stuff all at once.

    To my knowledge that was the plan all along anyway.

    (Disclaimer: The opinions above are my personal opinions as a long-time Miqobot user. Not as a moderator or developer or something, so don’t quote me on that as some official statement or something)

    #25149
    Nekro
    Nekro
    Participant
    3+

    Very well, it is time for another community voting thread. Let us discuss further development plans.

    At first I want to suggest to make this Thread more visible during such a discussion (might pinning it and temporarily extending the Thread Title with and [Community-Discussion] or something like that).

    For the plans, I think your current plan, after Level 80 Trust Dungeon is good as it is. So:

    1. Gathering updates.
    2. Scenario Engine updates.
    3. Quality-of-Life updates.
    4. Anything else

    Gathering should definitely be the next priority.
    After that I am a little bit unsure, but I would rate Scenario Engine Updates higher than QoL-Changes.
    However I would really like to have a better overview and sorting possibility for all the grids and scenarios etc. and some other stuff suggested in this forums. So maybe a switch every 1 or 2 developement cycles between Scenario-Updates and QoL-Changes?

    #25211

    Krude
    Participant
    0

    I’d definitely want the gathering updates next.

    #25294

    SefirosuKuraudo
    Participant
    1+

    While the level 61 Dungeon would be nice to just knock out those tier 2 tank achievements, we’re getting closer to 6.0, and following the pattern of expansion release the achievement requirements will most likely be bumped up to 71+, like how it was bumped from 51+ to 61+ when ShB was released. So that’s a lot of effort for something that has a chance to become useless very soon. I agree that the efforts should be spent on something the userbase at large wants to use, since time is so precious and the team only has so much of it. So far that seems like Gathering updates.
    I always miss out on these community vote threads so:

    1.) Gathering
    2.) Trusts (only because time is a factor and pushing it too far out means risking releasing it right before the next expansion drops, kind of like when we finally got level 70 job combat support like two days before Shadowbringers released XD)
    2.) Scenario Engine Updates
    3.) Quality of Life stuff

    #25295

    Stigmar
    Participant
    1+

    I would say:
    1) Gathering as this patch really broke it when it comes to collectables and the emp nodes
    2) Combat Assist as it is still lagging behind for some jobs and being caught up should (in theory) reduce the work load next expansion
    3) Scenario engine updates
    4} QOL stuff
    5) 61 support for tank mount farming

    As a side note if they add that Christmas mini game again that should be put high on the list.

    I am leaving trusts off as i feel right now we have some for leveling and the 80 will be out soon for tome farming and that should be good enough for why people were asking for them.

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