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It’s overthinking the market I believe. It would make you attempt silly short term things just to get a little gain out of it
I am glad we have managed to have a very productive discussion on this topic
I must admit when I wrote this suggestion I had not fully considered the impact of implementing such a feature, I am convinced that a tragedy of the commons scenario is the most likely outcome if it is incorporated into miqo, to be fair I do have quite a lot of listed items on quite a lot of retainers, which does make it very tedious in lowering each item individually, but I do agree it will end up doing more harm than good no matter what good intention safety checks we add in
Yeah I have 1 mule, 12 retainers, selling 240 items at all time, so I feel you.
But I can give you an advice. I only check those items one time per day, that’s the first thing I do when I log in, I log into my mule first, I replace the items that sold by same ones, if I see some items didn’t sell while they usually do, I check the price and adjust it.
But that’s all, just one time per day is enough. Every Monday I take all the money each retainer made, and bring it back to me, I put the numbers in an Excel file for fun.I found out you really don’t need to spend more time than that, a couple of minutes when you log in. Once you reached a couple of hundred millions, which should only take a year with Miqobot, by not even trying that on purpose, there’s nothing in the game you can’t buy, you’re set.
The reason Miqobot users get rich by not trying, it’s because we’re self sufficient, and we only buy in the market what we can not get ourselves because we got bad RNG (Minions, Primal crafting mats, etc.).
You don’t need to waste time in price wars, being obsessed by adjusting the numbers, your stuff will sell anyway, not as fast as you might want, but it will sell.
With 240 items on sell, I only sell about 40 a day, sometimes less, it still bring 4-5 millions a week, and for most of these items I have already enough stock ready for years, for some I don’t even know if the entire duration of FFXIV will be enough to sell all the stock.
Recently it took me 2 years to get rid of thousands of cheese, leathers, etc. I just sold them by x1 (mostly), x3, x99, it’s slow, but it’s long term, they sold at the price I wanted, I never undercut, either I keep my high price, or sometime I line up with someone else price, but I never undercut, that’s where you lose money.
It’s the Prisoner’s Dilemma, with sometimes one slightly dissimilarity that makes all the difference. Like in any Prisoner’s Dilemma you can not contact the other player to get agree on prices because you don’t have their name, but here, you can try to send a subtle message, when they undercut you, line up on their price, if they undercut you again, line up again on their price again, if they have a brain, they will understand and stop, understanding they’re losing gils by doing that, stuff might then sell slower, but it will sell.If you rush, you waste time, and lose all the sell potential of your stuff. The secret is just patience, and a little army of retainers that sell things very slow, but since you have plenty of things up at all time, it makes up for the slow, and you don’t waste time checking prices, you don’t waste time crafting again what you sold too fast at too low prices.
That and patch days where you make millions per days on the new stuff and old stuff that became suddenly relevant again, is well enough to never worry about gils.Some people already mentioned their ideas here but since Miqo devs like forum feedback I’ll add my opinion as well!
Automated undercutting would collapse the AH very quickly so I don’t think it’s a good idea. It seems that there’s already a bot for that, I don’t know about it and really don’t care enough to find out.
I do have 8 retainers and sell a lot of things on the AH. I’d certainly like a bot to check prices and adjust accordingly and this does fall on the monotonous part Miqo is supposed to help with.
If its something that many people are looking for, how about simply getting miqo to go through your retainers, check current prices and adjust them by -1 gil if that’s what you’re looking for? Require a manual player interaction with it, say, go to the bell, go to Miqo and run the command. Wait the few seconds or minutes depending on volume that Miqo will require to undercut to your hearts content.
Add a killswitch of sorts to this feature, meaning you can only use it every hour or so? Its the time it takes for quick exploration and hunting ventures and exclude it from scenarios. I would certainly use this kind of feature and it should prevent several bots from undercutting each other down to black Tuesday levels of a market crash!
It’s certainly not a priority in my book however, much as I’d love for an option to send/resend my retainers in quick explorations instead of manually going through them all, accepting the rewards and shushing them back to work!
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This reply was modified 5 years, 2 months ago by
Botiqe.
You guys are wrong, and this is based off experience in another came. When I use to play wow a few years ago, we had a AH bot which undercut by 1. There has already been a lot of assumptions leaning one way but what about the other?
Items with high demand is your target market, doesn’t matter if hundreds use this bot, your items will still sell more regularly than if you did it manually and left it alone. The whole point of a bot is automation and walking away. Having a fully automated solution is why folks spend money on these to begin with.
AH bot in WOW was the game changer for me, since I was producing more than selling and was causing a bottleneck.
It still remains a pvp feature. You clicked the button and your bot did all the undercutting for you. Nice. But someone else clicked it one minute later. And now your button is on 1 hour cooldown. Does it make you happy?
Yes it would make people happy because it would be a QoL thing which is what miqo is for, doing tedious/grindy things for you.
If you keep it from being automated and keep it from being used in scenario, then that avoids a lot of the problems people have with an undercutting bot. It would still rely on user interaction, similar to combat assist. Its a good compromise between fully automated and not existing at all.
This is an interesting suggestion.
Would you please give us additional details from your understanding of the problem?- How would you suggest we implement this artificial limit?
- What would prevent users from simply restarting Miqobot to reset the cooldown?
- What would prevent users from using a mouse macro to restart Miqobot and click the button automatically in a loop while being AFK?
- What would prevent users from trying to hack Miqobot in order to remove the cooldown?
- Does everyone agree with this artificial limit?
- How would you suggest we implement this artificial limit?
- What would prevent users from simply restarting Miqobot to reset the cooldown?
- What would prevent users from using a mouse macro to restart Miqobot and click the button automatically in a loop while being AFK?
- What would prevent users from trying to hack Miqobot in order to remove the cooldown?
- Does everyone agree with this artificial limit?
My personal take on this would be a 12hr cooldown, if possible integrated in the Catnip license so that it prevents people from tempering with the bot itself (stored server-side) similar to how you determine the remaining time for the license. To be fair I have no clue about how to integrate it or if it is possible, just my idea on it.
And I think it’d be “fair” if you can do it every 12 hours since it’s just a relieve for a tedium that I personally do maybe twice a day (most of the time not even that because for me it takes too much time).
- How would you suggest we implement this artificial limit?
- What would prevent users from simply restarting Miqobot to reset the cooldown?
- What would prevent users from using a mouse macro to restart Miqobot and click the button automatically in a loop while being AFK?
- What would prevent users from trying to hack Miqobot in order to remove the cooldown?
- Does everyone agree with this artificial limit?
Just when I thought we had found a solid implementation, Miqo brings up some important points. It shows that the miqo team thinks thoroughly on the ethical implications of each feature they introduce.
In a perfect world, we wouldn’t need to add any sort of artificial limit. I myself update prices anywhere from once an hr to a few times a day. For me, adding such a feature would be more of a QoL enhancement than the undercutting bot that some people want/wish for. It would closer resemble the watering garden feature (another feature on my wish list), just something used to alleviate the monotony of updating prices or watering plants.
However, we do not live in a perfect world. Without some sort of limitation, something that I envision only used as needed, would instead be abused to keep the user’s prices updated to the second, causing many of the problems already mentioned.
- How would you suggest we implement this artificial limit?
- What would prevent users from simply restarting Miqobot to reset the cooldown?
- What would prevent users from using a mouse macro to restart Miqobot and click the button automatically in a loop while being AFK?
- What would prevent users from trying to hack Miqobot in order to remove the cooldown?
I agree with Nirvana’s suggestion for this. Having a cooldown that is server-sided would discourage/prevent any type of tampering with miqobot.
5. Does everyone agree with this artificial limit?
I myself think the cooldown should be anywhere from 30min to 1hr. This is about how often a reasonable person would be updating their prices. Whatever undercutting issues arise from that should fall within the norm. Miqo would just be saving the user the button presses.
However, that is just my opinion. Perhaps a forum poll to decide? Or better yet (and this would probably fall under a feature request), adding a polling feature to miqobot. When a user starts miqo, there could be a feedback/poll section on the main window that can update from the server with whatever the miqo team wants feedback on. That way you are gauging response from all users and not just the ones on the forums.
All right, thank you for your opinion very much!
We will consider implementing this as a feature locked behind server-side algorithms.
However, please keep in mind that such solution would cost approximately 5 times more than a normal feature both in time and development efforts. It will also result in significant workload increase in Tech Support department.Therefore we have to see that:
- There is enough demand to justify this kind of development.
- Everybody understands and agrees with this artificial limit.
- The community reaches a consensus on the exact duration of the cooldown.
This is an extremely sensitive topic and we don’t think that a simple poll would be enough in this case.
We would like to see live constructive feedback that will give us better understanding of the community demand. Thank you very much!All right, thank you for your opinion very much!
We will consider implementing this as a feature locked behind server-side algorithms.
However, please keep in mind that such solution would cost approximately 5 times more than a normal feature both in time and development efforts. It will also result in significant workload increase in Tech Support department.Therefore we have to see that:
- There is enough demand to justify this kind of development.
- Everybody understands and agrees with this artificial limit.
- The community reaches a consensus on the exact duration of the cooldown.
This is an extremely sensitive topic and we don’t think that a simple poll would be enough in this case.
We would like to see live constructive feedback that will give us better understanding of the community demand. Thank you very much!Since it takes so much effort I rather see the combat and other features developed first while this is something for when you have time to spare (which likely is never but oh well), it’s really just a nice to have and not mandatory in any way for me.
I’d rather see you develop the combat assist / trust dungeon support instead of spending hours upon hours on this.Thanks for listening to requests as much as you do Miqo, that’s why I always come back to you when I play. Have a great new year everybody.
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This reply was modified 4 years, 11 months ago by
Nirvana Flame.
Here’s my take on it.
I think it would be a real waste of resources, the ratio usefulness/dev time is heavily unbalanced.
Too often I see request like this one, where the poster didn’t put enough thoughts into it, regarding the difficulty to implement and the solutions that already exist to overcome it.
That’s why the Miqobot devs then diplomatically send us cues about feasibility and utility.So here’s the truth, with Miqobot you can become Gillionnaire easily, lots of us here became Gil billionaires, and you really don’t need that kind of money in the game, because with Miqobot you’re self sufficient, and the only things left to buy are items that comes from RNG, such as some minions, mounts, primal crafting items, songs, maps items, etc.
And with Miqobot you can easily make enough money to buy all of them regularly.So yeah, you’ll get undercut, often, but you need to see beyond that, you need to realize that it doesn’t matter, your stuff will sell eventually, and with Miqobot you’ll never run out of stuff to sell.
So, don’t spend time in the undercutting war, diversify yourself, be on several markets at the same time, don’t bet on one item only, check your prices no more than twice a day, be patient, realize that’s it’s ok to lose some sells to undercutters, yours will sell too.
Due to the concerns and needing the handhold the user with blocks/server limitations, I am against this feature, despite my original post asking if it ‘is’ possible. I would much rather Combat updated, crafting updated, scenario engine to be improved, or a hefty number of other backlog items, or new enhancements than I would it saving me a couple clicks per item.
Esp since I know how little time it will actually save, esp with a once per X check. AND knowing when someone else clicks it RIGHT after me, I now have to go manually do it ANYWAY.
Miqo can already make you millions a day with purely farming, the user can handle the selling portion.
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This reply was modified 5 years, 2 months ago by
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