This topic contains 34 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by 
Gray 5 years, 5 months ago.
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is going to be pretty happy about hard incoming crafts.
We will see aboit it… once addon is out.
And just fyi, as you said that a few times: I didn’t spend millions and millions of gil on materia for overmelding. Actually I didn’t spend a single gil in general. I simply just did my weekly custom deliveries, did some basic scrip farming and bought all the materia I’ve pentamelded my gear with from the scrip dealer NPCs over a course of about 1-2 month (for almost complete BiS melds that is!).
Dunno about your server, but here we have each yellow scrip convertable into 160 gil easily (via materia, yes). Each week brings… some 2000 yellow scrips? That’s 320k gil weekly. Once again I dunno how many weeks you have wasted, but sounds like a lot. So generally I was right: you put at least some 2 mil into overmelds. Lost profit is nearly equal to money spent, you know? Oh, and also something tells me that during the start of addon crafting materia VI did cost WAY more than 80k, so actually you lost way more than 2 mil… you just didn’t notice it.
You just quoted yourself how many weeks I “wasted” (it is not a waste, when the end-result is the successful achievement of a goal. per definition “waste” means, that an action was futile and resulted in failure):
a course of about 1-2 month (for almost complete BiS melds that is!).
And also
We will see aboit it… once addon is out.
Square Enix can only make recipes so hard, that humans are capable of solving them.
When the Ala Mhigan crafter gear was released in 4.1 it was almost uncraftable. It took days (usually you have rotations in a few hours) until people came up with a pure cancer rotation that could barely make HQ Ala Mhigan with ALL base-materials HQ and absolute BiS gear from before that patch. Look at the cancer, that was the rotation:
With the said Ala Mhigan HQ gear, pentamelded, this was the best people could do with only NQ materials back then:
I remember that even Miqo with top melds had some difficulties crafting Ala Mhigan gear back then, but in comparison to user-generated macros it was still a miracle.
So yeah, even if they release another Ala Mhigan set difficulty craft, I’m gonna be really happy.
Oh, and also something tells me that during the start of addon crafting materia VI did cost WAY more than 80k, so actually you lost way more than 2 mil… you just didn’t notice it.
Of course I noticed that. But:
1. I did not spend a single gil on any materia, since I’ve hoarded materia before, during the previous addon
2. From the perspective of a genuine player: Lost possible profit =/= Gil wasted. Only actually spent gil = Gil “wasted”. If I use scrips to buy materia and use it for myself, I haven’s “wasted” a single gil, even if 1 materia cost 100 million at that time
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This reply was modified 5 years, 5 months ago by
Arc.
You just quoted yourself how many weeks I “wasted” (it is not a waste, when the end-result is the successful achievement of a goal. per definition “waste” means, that an action was futile and resulted in failure):
This action was futile because you could have achieved the same goal with way less effort/investments. See below.
Look at the cancer, that was the rotation:
Well this is definitely the cancer… as this rotation is far from perfect. It took me 10 mins to improve it – see for yourself:
Unfortunately, there are no more such crafts which require 6723 progress and 28k quality, so I had to use a substitute (I hope it does not matter, as it’s 70** too). Also, I know no way to make crafter simulator to ignore progress bar fill and use the whole sequence still, even if progress [seemingly] reached maximum (with low probability), so I had to replace 2 Synthesis III with Synthesis II for screenshot purposes. Replace them back (there is enough CPs left), and you receive 100% reliability.
As you can see, I have reached the same goal with 82 less Control (1139 instead of 1221). This basically means 20 less overmelds, or triplemelds instead of your pentamelds. So the rest 2 melds on each item were waste, yes.
With the said Ala Mhigan HQ gear, pentamelded, this was the best people could do with only NQ materials back then:
As far as my experience tells me, you are wrong, most probably… “The best people could do” was never released in open. Professionals do not share their [actual] projects for free, you know… while casuals gladly share non-optimal solutions.
I remember that even Miqo with top melds had some difficulties crafting Ala Mhigan gear back then, but in comparison to user-generated macros it was still a miracle.
Then it was just a really bad macro. As you can see above, next-to-100%-best macro works better than Miqo, and even Miqo team representative admitted it.
So yeah, even if they release another Ala Mhigan set difficulty craft, I’m gonna be really happy.
Me too 😉 Or rather, I’d be happy if they add certain crafts (non-essencial, like some lvl1 glamour clothes which start to shine or smth once made HQ) which require pentameld AND absolutely best sequence to HQ. This would mean just a few professional crafters with lots of money and decent optimisation skills are going to craft them HQ (manually!)… while the rest are going to fail here and there. This will not happen, probably, but we will see.
From the perspective of a casual player: Lost possible profit =/= Gil wasted. Only actually spent gil = Gil “wasted”. If I use scrips to buy materia and use it for myself, I haven’s “wasted” a single gil, even if 1 materia cost 100 million at that time
Fixed a bit. You still spend your time to produce scrips, right? I spend it too, but you waste part of the product received, making excess melds, while I put it into good use.
Well this is definitely the cancer… as this rotation is far from perfect. It took me 10 mins to improve it – see for yourself:
Uh, sorry, but either I’m blind or you are kinda confused.
The rotation I posted was 80 skills long. The “improved” rotation you posted has 90 skills, with the only ‘improvement’ of needing 82 less Control, plus the rotation is wrong, since you have used Flawless Synthesis 55 times, while you “only” have 46 stacks of Flawless synthesis on that recipe.The best people could do” was never released in open. Professionals do not share their [actual] projects for free
Yes they do here in FFXIV. Just to remind you… This:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1L1aDMxZOjhdmzsilToDvsrwqfcUOs6NKxhsCBa1IwVQ/previewThis contains all information about crafting and gathering, down to a deep mathermatical level. People in FFXIV share all intel and data they get, even stuff like damage formula down to second digit decimals on The Balance Discord. Heck, even world #1 players on the fflogs leaderboards go there, analyze and help people with getting excellent parses, theorycraft publicly about damage number changes, etc.
You have to realize, that unlike many other MMORPG communities, the FFXIV community has a predominantly socialist mindset and the devs even enforce this socialist mindset in their terms of service. Just take a look at their list of prohibited activities: http://support.na.square-enix.com/faqarticle.php?kid=68216&id=5382&la=1
You can even get banned for
“■ Nuisance behaviour
“Nuisance behaviour” means speech or behaviour that hurts others or obstructs game play, but which is not classified as harassment. Even if it was not the intention, a penalty may be imposed if the end result was that another person was hurt or obstructed.”The devs also for example randomized when housing plots become free, so people cannot make a buck by selling houses that easy anymore and once a plot gets demolished everyone gets a fair and equal chance to obtain the plot.
As far as my experience tells me, you are wrong, most probably…
Yeah right. A whole Reddit and Balance Discord Theorycrafter community that writes a compendium about crafting on the level of a doctoral research study with Miqobot data from 500.000 executed and logged crafts is wrong and the so much smarter Gray is right.
Sorry, but at this point I’m leaving the discussion, because you are stepping into nonsense territory. You only try to see it from your own standpoint, but do not try at all to understand and see it from other people’s standpoint and maybe research, why such a big community came up with “such a bad” rotation that Gray, who plays FFXIV – for how long now? 3 months? – can easily improve in 10 minutes.
Excuse me, but in this case I just feel like this discussion leads to nowhere. You will see yourself, when hard recipes get released next time (Rakshasa gear was extremely easy by the way) and I’m not further answering to this.
And by the way: The 2 million gil you saved on selling materia instead of pentamelding you lose by having to use X more skills than someone with pentamelds for every recipe and as such losing a lot of time, in which you could craft more items/farm more stuff, just for your efficiency equasion.
The rotation I posted was 80 skills long. The “improved” rotation you posted has 90 skills, with the only ‘improvement’ of needing 82 less Control, plus the rotation is wrong, since you have used Flawless Synthesis 55 times, while you “only” have 46 stacks of Flawless synthesis on that recipe.
Once again: I have no exact information about this craft (because it does not exist anymore), so I used existent craft instead. I’m quite limited by what ffxiv-beta.lokyst.net lets me do, so… Let’s wait until ShB and we will see if SE repeat this funny adventure or not.
As for the rest… well, if you feel that spending 2 mil of gil (or rather spending enough time to earn this amount in form of scrips) is easier than to develop an efficient rotation – so be it. I’m tired of this discussion as well… Just please, do not tell me that “you are using wrong skills – that’s why you fail” or “you do not have penta overmelds – that’s why you fail”, ok? My scripts do not fail me, even without MM or pentamelds, believe or no.
And by the way: The 2 million gil you saved on selling materia instead of pentamelding you lose by having to use X more skills than someone with pentamelds for every recipe and as such losing a lot of time, in which you could craft more items/farm more stuff, just for your efficiency equasion.
Right now my best grinding scenario brings me about 420k gil per rl hour, so a minute of my toon’s time costs 7k gil. Ten extra abilities of 3s each mean half a minute, or 3.5k gil lost. So basically you have to craft about 570 hi-end items to save enough time to cover loss of 2 mil. Something tells me you aren’t going to sell that many… ever.
Besides, if this recipe does not allow ten extra synthesises, then I won’t use them, either. I was just using as many abilities as Shinryu recipe allowed me. But ok, here is a rotation as long as your + more efficient that your, which still requires 20+ less overmelds:
I wonder if I should go for doctoral graduation too? 😛 Too bad nobody accepts such a attempt here where I live… as rusty old members of dissertation defence board would never take anything based on MMORPG seriously.
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This reply was modified 5 years, 5 months ago by
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